#22: Build Trust and Influence: PROVEN Internal Branding Tactics with Brooke Wheeler

Brooke Wheeler:
00:01

I know I can't just walk in and say, you have to trust me, please. I'm I'm good at my job.

Rhona Pierce:
00:06

In talent acquisition, trust isn't given, it's earned. But how do you build that trust and become more than just another recruiter? Brooke Wheeler is a talent acquisition leader with over 25 years of experience. Known for transforming recruitment strategies and building high performing teams, she joined me to share insights on elevating your TA career and making a lasting impact through internal branding.

Brooke Wheeler:
00:34

If hiring managers don't understand what you're about, why would they trust you with their jobs?

Rhona Pierce:
00:41

What's one mistake that you see TA professionals make when they're trying

Brooke Wheeler:
00:45

to build their brand internally? We're the face of the company. Our job is to sell the company. If you start feeling like you're not aligning with your company's values, you're in the wrong job.

Rhona Pierce:
01:01

What advice would you give to TA professionals who want to be seen as more than just recruiters, but as like strategic business partners?

Brooke Wheeler:
01:13

Come to the table with solutions. But if you are just waiting on other people to tell you the answers, you're never gonna make

Rhona Pierce:
01:21

it very far. But what if your leader feels threatened by your efforts to build your internal brand?

Brooke Wheeler:
01:28

You certainly need to respect your leader in some way, but

Rhona Pierce:
01:35

Why do you work in talent acquisition? Like, why do you do what you do?

Brooke Wheeler:
01:39

Oh my gosh. That's a great question. Probably like everyone, I fell into talent acquisition just straight out of college. But what I love is being able to talk to so many people and learn so many different stories. Unfortunately, I've been unemployed this year, and that's what I miss the most.

Brooke Wheeler:
01:56

And that's what I find myself gravitating toward. It's just being able to hear people's stories and learn why they love the work that they do. Maybe it's just like the natural voyeur in all of us. We really like to learn, you know, what other people do and and how they thrive in their jobs.

Rhona Pierce:
02:13

Yeah. I I find that now that I'm not working in corporate and that I'm not actively recruiting, it's really one of the things that I miss. It's like hearing people's stories day in, day out. 6, 7, 8 people you talk to in one day, all different. That is so amazing.

Rhona Pierce:
02:30

I think when people hear the word personal branding, they think external. They think LinkedIn. They think any social media. But today, we're gonna talk about the different the other side of personal branding, which is internally. So what does building your brand internally entail?

Rhona Pierce:
02:50

How do you go about doing that?

Brooke Wheeler:
02:52

Right. So many different ways, but the number one thing that we as recruiters, as talent acquisition specialists need to be our trusted advisors. And if people don't know you, if hiring managers don't understand what you're about and what your heart is in it for, why would they trust you with their jobs? And that's really what we're after is becoming that trusted advisor. And, you know, throughout my career, I think that I've done that well in the sense of gaining their trust, but also doing what I say I'm gonna do and caring about their business.

Brooke Wheeler:
03:30

And we as TA and in recruiting, we're stewards of the brand of the company, and it's our job to be that face for the company. And so part of that is just, like I said, doing what you say you're gonna do, being curious, wanting to ask questions. Tell me about your business. What's even the product that's on the other end? And I think that's where you start building your brand and being that steward to the company.

Rhona Pierce:
03:57

I agree. And I think I know a lot of people, me included, have had periods in their life when they felt in their professional life, when they felt undervalued or overlooked. Have you had any times? Can you share any personal stories where you felt undervalued or overlooked within your organization and how you went about overcoming that?

Brooke Wheeler:
04:22

Yeah. And I'm I'm sure I could tell plenty from the beginning of my career, but most recently, I joined a company that unfortunately, they had laid off their entire HR department, their entire recruiting department. And so I came in with a new HR department and, you know, the leaders were it was kind of a wild west. The leaders were giving all of their jobs out to agencies. And so when we walked in the door, most everyone was very grateful.

Brooke Wheeler:
04:49

They were like, oh my gosh, please. Like, what can I give you? But there was the CTO who had kind of come he may be created the Wild West show. He brought in a lot of his own agencies that he had worked with before. And, you know, I kinda had one other thing, I guess, not going for me.

Brooke Wheeler:
05:06

I am an everything but IT recruiter. And so he was like, who are you? You don't know my business, and I didn't. You know, so that was kind of a I really had to dig in to say, okay. I know.

Brooke Wheeler:
05:17

I can't just walk in and say, you have to trust me, please. I'm I'm good at my job. So I really had to start a process where I gained his trust. And the very first thing that I did was I didn't do it to be sneaky, but I went to his direct reports, and I started building their trust because they're the ones, like, in the trenches, in the weeds that need these hires. So I started, you know, everything that I do, a biweekly meeting with them.

Brooke Wheeler:
05:45

In fact, we probably did it at least every week, if not every 3 or 4 days at first. You know, biweekly meeting with them to learn what would exactly what I said about, you know, how you build your brand. Tell me about what what I said about, you know, how you build your brand. Tell me about what you do. Tell me about the people that you need so that they knew that I was caring about their group and their department.

Brooke Wheeler:
05:57

I learned about their culture. Like, what does it take to be be in your department and who are the people that work well and thrive here? So it really is just about, you know, baby steps to gain that trust and just be very direct. Like, I don't know exactly what's happening or what you need, but I really wanna learn, and I really wanna know more about your business. And so slowly but surely over time, he saw that I'm I'm here for you.

Brooke Wheeler:
06:28

I want to do a good job for you. And, you know, once he saw a couple of wins, he was able to to be he really was our greatest advocate.

Rhona Pierce:
06:36

That's an amazing story, and I think every recruiter listening can think back to a time where someone was like because there's always someone internally who's like, no. Not you. For whatever reason, they're anti recruiter or for whatever reason. So that's a great story. At the end of the day, what we wanna do is build trust and become partners, And the only way of doing that is really like you did, like, I call it infiltrate, talk to people.

Brooke Wheeler:
07:07

Right. Right. Well, and, you know, it's I don't know about you as a human me. I'm not great at tooting my own horn. And so my work stands for itself.

Brooke Wheeler:
07:18

But sometimes you do have to you have to learn how and that's part of building your brand. And maybe you have a boss or someone who's really good at tooting your horn for you. You know, I've always had those people who are, you know, my greatest advocates. And I think you have to find those folks within your organization that can help and say, you know, kind of prop you up when you're not able to do it yourself.

Rhona Pierce:
07:40

Exactly. So what's one thing that you wish someone had told you about building your career and your brand earlier in your journey?

Brooke Wheeler:
07:53

Yeah. I think that we all think that we have to know everything to be the expert and you don't. So I really wish someone had said just trust your gut because when we walk into a room with hiring managers, with candidates, we are the expert. We could know 5% more than them, but we typically know more. And I think it's just to trust yourself and trust your gut that you are the subject matter expert, that you have value.

Brooke Wheeler:
08:19

You have something to add. There were so many times when, you know, imposter syndrome with that that dirty word we all hate, it's it's gonna jump in and it's gonna hurt jump out rather. And, it's just how to how to flick it away and say, like, I can help here.

Rhona Pierce:
08:35

Yeah. And that's something that many guests on those podcasts and I have spoken about many times through all the episodes. It's like, yes, you might not be a technical person because you might not know how to do half of the jobs that you're recruiting for, but you're the expert at hiring. Mhmm. That's yours thing.

Rhona Pierce:
08:56

You have to stand in that power. 100%. So how do you approach internal branding, like, on a daily basis? What does that look like?

Brooke Wheeler:
09:07

You know, some I've been very fortunate where I have some corporations who have an incredible career development path. And you know, there were so many times early in my career when, like we said, I didn't trust myself. It didn't feel like I was the leader. But no matter what role you're in, where you sit in the organization, you have the ability to lead. And if you don't feel confident in your leadership, find some classes.

Brooke Wheeler:
09:35

And I I know LinkedIn Learning has some, and I was able to take, you know, clear communication or some, you know, conflict is always difficult for me. So really how to to lean into conflict in a healthy way and, you know, I was very fortunate to have those classes available to me, but there's so many different opportunities. But it is. It's we you know, just every day, just a little pebble in your bucket to to keep building your voice in a way.

Rhona Pierce:
10:04

Looking back, because I know that you've managed many TA teams. You are a TA leader. What's one mistake that you see TA professionals make when they're trying to build their brand internally?

Brooke Wheeler:
10:17

I hope I don't offend anyone like this. But, you know, we, NTA, we're the face of the company. We are the the first line. We are sometimes the first conversation someone has with the organization, and our job is to sell the company. And if you if you start feeling like you're not aligning with your company's values, you're in the wrong job.

Brooke Wheeler:
10:40

That's I've seen so many recruiters who, you know, maybe on the back end and maybe not out loud to a candidate, but I just there's just a lot of negativity like, I'm not saying you have to always love everything your company does, but you kinda have to drink the Kool Aid in a in a bit of a way, and you really do need to always have positivity and, you know, speak highly of your company and not be the person who is talking behind people's backs or saying, oh, this guy, blah, blah, blah. We have to be that positive face to the company. And I think that's I hope I've done a great job of doing that with my organizations. You know, on internal branding, I speak more about my company than I do about myself. And that's the, you know, maybe a mistake that I've made.

Brooke Wheeler:
11:24

And so it's certainly something to always remember. You know, I know you spoke with Anna Morgan about your external brand, and that's you never wanna forget that either. You also want when you're on LinkedIn, find your own voice and find what makes you the most valuable person outside of just your company.

Rhona Pierce:
11:41

Yeah. And it's true what you said. I mean and I've said this on other episodes. I think it I I don't remember with who it was, but there's always some BS at the company. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
11:51

Right. Of course. Like, no company is perfect. But at the end of the day, you work there because the good outweighs the BS, hopefully. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
12:02

Yes. You're not painting a rosy picture for candidates and everything because sometimes people the first time they ever hear about the company is from you. Like you said, yes. You're the face of the company. But if you just say the truth and approach things, but you have to be in that positive mindset about your company.

Rhona Pierce:
12:21

Because the BS, yes, explain it to people. I never an advocate for hiding it.

Brooke Wheeler:
12:27

Correct. But

Rhona Pierce:
12:28

there's positive things about the BS. Right? There's positive ways to to explain it to people. But I know for me, the second I'm not aligned with the company or, like, the BS starts outweighing the good, I know it's time to leave. And those few weeks or months and now, unfortunately, years of someone's in this situation that it can take you to find another place, you really have to work on your mindset and not presenting your company in a bad light because that kills your brand internally.

Rhona Pierce:
13:11

Because the hiring manager or someone else will know from something a candidate says that you are not being the best representation of the company, and that starts killing your brand internally and killing the trust that they have with you. Right.

Brooke Wheeler:
13:29

And I get yeah. It all goes back to trust.

Rhona Pierce:
13:31

Yeah. So talking about trust, how do you build that trust and rapport with internal stakeholders, especially those that don't have a deep understanding of TA, but we know everyone thinks they know how to hire. Right?

Brooke Wheeler:
13:46

Right. Why do I need you? I think a lot of it is curiosity. And that's, again, why we're so good at our jobs and why we're great interviewers because we're curious about people's lives. And I think we just extend that same quality to our hiring managers.

Brooke Wheeler:
14:04

Tell me about your business. Can I come to your lunch and learns? Can I attend your sales meetings? Make sure that you have constant communication with them what's happening, especially when you're doing that intake call, really get curious on their business. And then be honest.

Brooke Wheeler:
14:22

I have, you know, sat in an intake meeting and like, I have never recruited for this in my life, but I'm gonna figure it out and you're gonna help me and show up at their team meetings with a couple of profiles and show the entire team like this is what I think. How does this align with what you're looking for and get their feedback? And it is it's just a matter of making sure they know you're there for them. Quick story. I had a hiring manager that it was a large, maybe 200 customer service organization, and I was moved on to be the recruiter for them.

Brooke Wheeler:
14:55

And I noticed a lot of not maybe pushback defensiveness, just non responsiveness from the hiring manager. And, you know, I could have said, well, she must not need me, but I decided to just ask a very direct question. I don't feel like I'm getting a lot from you. Is there something I can do better that would make you wanna work with me? And she said, I've had 3 recruiters before you and they all, you know, didn't send good candidates.

Brooke Wheeler:
15:25

They barely called me. They asked to be moved off of this department. And her being vulnerable to me allowed me to then say, okay. Well, these are the steps that I think we should take. I'm not offering perfection, but I'm offering you my service and and let's make a plan that works for you.

Brooke Wheeler:
15:45

And, you know, we put some things in place with communication, with meetings, with me interviewing her best talent so that I could learn, you know, the profile. And we were able to really kind of turn around that department because we got better hires, better tenure, better happiness in their job. I'm not sure. I'm like, we're not this horse when I need it.

Rhona Pierce:
16:06

Yeah. No. That's such a powerful illustration of really what it means to be a partner and to build trust. Because at behind everything, like, yeah, we can talk about hiring managers and how they think they know everything, and they can talk about how they hate us and how we're not needed. But when you like, behind a hiring manager is a human.

Rhona Pierce:
16:31

Behind a recruiter is a human. And historically, it doesn't matter what you're doing. How do humans connect? And it's through talking.

Brooke Wheeler:
16:42

Right. Novel concepts sometimes. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
16:45

I know there's a saying in Spanish. So I'm from Panama. Spanish is my first language. And there's a saying in Panama that it's like, people understand each other when they talk. And it just means like when things are out of whack, when everyone's mad, everything, like, the simplest way to get a relationship back on track is to do what you did.

Rhona Pierce:
17:07

Just reach out to the person, ask the question that you're wanting to know. Don't make up stories in your head. Just talk. That could solve so many problems.

Brooke Wheeler:
17:18

100%. I love that. I love that.

Rhona Pierce:
17:21

So what advice would you give to TA professionals who want to be seen as more than just recruiters, but as, like, strategic business partners?

Brooke Wheeler:
17:33

It's come to the table with solutions. And that sounds, again, very simple. But if you are just waiting on, you know, other people to tell you the answers, you're never gonna make it very far. Truly come with ideas on what are some different ways to recruit because we kind of all get into our bad habits of just Oh, let me go to LinkedIn or let me do this, but not that everyone has to be a super sourcer. But what are some organizations that you're a part of that we should call?

Brooke Wheeler:
18:03

Are there any, you know, simple newsletters that you get? That's probably not even accurate anymore, but people that you follow online. But, you know, I think that it's just a matter of showing up every day, ready to help ready to serve and, you know, be that matchmaker that you are.

Rhona Pierce:
18:21

I love that advice. As a TA leader, how do you empower your team to build internal relationships?

Brooke Wheeler:
18:29

I just like to get out of the way in the sense of I will always be my team's greatest advocate. I will introduce you. I will make sure you know, you know, who you need to work with. I will set expectations with, I expect, you know, the communication to be proactive and not reactive. I expect that you have meetings with all of your hiring managers.

Brooke Wheeler:
18:53

You'd, you know, have simple do an intake. But I wanna make sure that you build a relationship and that it's not through me. I've had, gosh, unfortunately, a couple of of leaders of my bosses who I would get in trouble if I reached out to the CEO without them on the email or in the meeting, and that doesn't empower me to do my job. So I hope that I've learned from some of my great leaders who look at me and say, you're the expert, you're the one who knows what's happening on the ground. So you're the one that should be in charge of having these communications.

Brooke Wheeler:
19:28

And then as a leader, of course, always being available to, you know, help with any issues that come up or if there's any kind of miscommunication. But I'm always the one that's gonna say, well, you know, so and so is the expert. Let's call them in on this conversation, because that's how people learn, and how they can become the next us, and the leadership is if we're letting them do their jobs.

Rhona Pierce:
19:51

So I was looking through your LinkedIn profile as I prepared for this, and I saw some of the amazing recommendations that you have on LinkedIn. And now I know why. Just getting out of the way in everything that you've said and, like, being that champion for the people, like, speaking the name of your teams in rooms that they're nodding and bringing them into it and, like, letting them know it's okay to speak to someone higher up than me or to my boss. That one shows confidence in who you are and, like, in your professional abilities, but also it show it's a sign of a great leader. So I can see why you have such great recommendations.

Brooke Wheeler:
20:41

And and I've had good mentors in that as well. So I'm I'm I'm always glad to be on this side and being able to copy and mimic that.

Rhona Pierce:
20:49

And now you've you've brought up a good point of something that I just thought about for someone who's working with a leader who isn't that open to them talking to others, especially higher up, but the person wants to build their internal brand, I could see where a boss could see that as, like, competition. Intimidating. Yeah. Would you have some advice for someone who finds themselves in that situation?

Brooke Wheeler:
21:21

Yeah. The advice that I wish I'd given myself at this time in my career maybe is what we're looking for there. And you certainly need to respect your leader in some way. But I think, you know, having advocates of their peers, I found was very important so that they could bring me into certain conversations if they need if if was something that I needed to be a part of, and maybe my leader wasn't bringing me into that conversation. So I I went to the mentor that I had in the company.

Brooke Wheeler:
21:53

She was a senior director in the product division, and she said, sometimes you just have to manage up. You can't undo or change that your boss, you can't make them a different person, but you can just learn what they're looking for. So I knew any meeting I would show up with exactly what I knew she was looking for before she asked me. And if there were situations when, you know, she didn't necessarily want me to go talk to someone, of course, I would always learn to just you have to copy copy them, but just be confident in yourself. And it is, you know, find mentors in the organization, find your ambassadors, and find that, like, hype squad that if you are, like, feeling down about the way you've been treated, just find some people that can say that's them and it's not you.

Brooke Wheeler:
22:43

And and keep learning and growing from it. And it makes us all realize the kind of leader we wanna be when we see that in other people.

Rhona Pierce:
22:50

And that's the beauty of working in TA, I think, because we get to work naturally. It's part of our job with so many people outside of our immediate boss and team. We can get those advocates and the those people speaking your name and telling you, like, look. It's it's you. It's not you.

Rhona Pierce:
23:08

It's them. And, like, they don't only tell you that, but they say that to other people. And I think that's an advantage that we have that people in other roles don't have. Your job involves exposure to other people, So you can build your brand sneakily, I guess, that way.

Brooke Wheeler:
23:29

Right. Right. And it's it is. It's all about making sure that you have people that that were right beside you, always cheering for you. And we do the same to everyone else.

Brooke Wheeler:
23:39

That's our job too.

Rhona Pierce:
23:41

Yeah. Yes. It is. It definitely is because I know I've been in situations where someone's like someone's boss is like, oh, so and so this. I'm like, really?

Rhona Pierce:
23:50

I've had an amazing experience with them. They're one of my favorite hiring managers because of this, this, and this, and it's like, oh. Mhmm. Okay. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
23:59

Like, it helps see people in a different light.

Brooke Wheeler:
24:01

Right.

Rhona Pierce:
24:02

So and I I think it's just something that naturally recruiters do. We're always trying to to share the best about someone else. Right? Because that's what we do with our candidates. So I know I'm, like, territorial if someone talks bad about one of my hiring managers that I like, really like, no way.

Brooke Wheeler:
24:23

Well, and I'm obsessed with like, assessments and behavioral assessments. So anything that I take, it usually comes out with you are an encourager. You're the cheerleader, like and so that's just kind of a part of my nature too. And I know it's about you as well.

Rhona Pierce:
24:39

Yeah. I it's funny. I took CliftonStrengths. I'm forgetting it right now, but I've taken it a few times because I'm like, I wanna get something different. I don't know why.

Rhona Pierce:
24:49

I always get, like, relationship or relational as the first one.

Brooke Wheeler:
24:54

Don't try for anything else. That's you.

Rhona Pierce:
24:57

So as we wrap up, what are you up to these days? Like, how can listeners connect with you?

Brooke Wheeler:
25:02

Yeah. I would love that. I so I have a couple of things going on right now. I am on the job market, so I'm looking for leadership roles within the talent acquisition. But in lieu of that, I decided I'd just hang up a shingle and I am I have created my own business called Restoration Talent Solutions.

Brooke Wheeler:
25:20

It's a fractional recruiting company, and I think in my last role at merchant e was one of my favorite jobs because I was able to really create processes out of nothing, and I love doing that. I really want to be able to add value to companies who need recruiters when they've never had recruiters, and what does talent acquisition even mean? So follow me on LinkedIn, Brooke Wheeler, restoration talent solutions for fractional TA. And if anyone just wants to talk and then you wanna walk through this, I am always available and happy to discuss more.

Rhona Pierce:
25:55

And I know you totally mean that because Brooke is such an approachable person. So really, I'm gonna put the links in the show notes. If you want to talk to Brooke, if you wanna hire Brooke, if you want any ask questions, if you have any questions about this episode, please reach out. I know she'll

Brooke Wheeler:
26:16

talk to you. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Rhona Pierce:
26:20

Of course. Thank you for being on the show today.

Brooke Wheeler:
26:24

My pleasure.

Rhona Pierce:
26:25

Thanks to Brooke for being on the show. To learn more about branding yourself as a recruiter, check out episode 12, where I spoke to Anna Morgan about the power of a recruiter's personal brand and how to brand yourself outside of your company. Make sure to grab a notebook. Now as the TA job market starts to pick up, we're all looking to get back in the game stronger than ever. Over the next few weeks, I'll be sharing episodes packed with strategies to help you reinvent your approach to talent acquisition.

Rhona Pierce:
26:59

Don't miss out. Subscribe to throw out the playbook wherever you get your podcasts. And if today's conversation inspired you, please leave a 5 star review. Your reviews help other TA folks find us. Thanks for listening and I'll chat with you next week.