#6: Inclusive Hiring Starts with Effective Intake Calls with Kat Kibben

Rhona Pierce:
00:41

Welcome to Throw Out the Playbook, the podcast for recruiters tired of hearing that hiring is broken and ready to do something about it. I'm your host, Rona Pierce.

Katrina Kibben:
00:51

If you have an order taker mindset, if you if you are treated like an order taker because of your behavior, you lose something that you can't buy sell or trade, which is respect. You cannot buy respect. It is a must have in this relationship because that is the gateway to making more equitable decisions. Because if we're just gonna do orders, go hire an agency.

Rhona Pierce:
01:10

My guest today is Kat Kiven, the founder and CEO of 3 Ears Media. They're on a mission to teach recruiters how to lead intake calls with confidence and master the art of asking the right questions. In today's episode, you'll learn how to lead the intake call and avoid a order taker mindset.

Katrina Kibben:
01:28

This is not a Dairy Queen.

Rhona Pierce:
01:30

This is not fast food. You are not

Katrina Kibben:
01:32

sitting at a window picking something off the board. And if it feels that way, you need to retrain your team.

Rhona Pierce:
01:39

The importance of preparing for the call and asking follow-up questions.

Katrina Kibben:
01:43

You need to be really good at asking follow-up questions and willing to be like, I don't know the answer.

Rhona Pierce:
01:49

How asking the right questions can help address bias and open the door for diverse candidates.

Katrina Kibben:
01:54

Maybe they didn't already have this exact job, and we can understand the experiences you had that would qualify you for this role.

Rhona Pierce:
02:02

And how to prepare for the future of recruiting in a AI driven world.

Katrina Kibben:
02:06

If you do not know what question to ask, you are useless. And I say that with a lot of love.

Rhona Pierce:
02:12

Let's dive into my conversation with Kat. I don't know if you know the story of how I ended up connecting with you. It is relevant to what we're talking about today. So I'm gonna be shorting the story a lot, but I was working for someone and he told me I was a terrible writer because I used Oxford commas. That was the the big problem with my writing.

Rhona Pierce:
02:38

And the junior person that I had just trained on my team was now responsible of supervising all of my writing before it went out. I had, yes, I had recently, moved from software engineering and software project management to recruiting, and I've been a writer all my life. Like, my mom has short stories that I've written since I was 6 years old. So that hit me to my core. It's like, what do you mean I'm not a good writer?

Rhona Pierce:
03:04

So I started Googling and I thought, maybe it's just that I'm not a good writer for recruiting. And I ended up stumbling upon Kat Kibben. No joke. Yeah. You were offering back then you were starting, you were offering free job post writing courses, and I took that workshop.

Rhona Pierce:
03:27

Yeah.

Katrina Kibben:
03:27

I remember that.

Rhona Pierce:
03:28

Yeah. What was so incredible for me was, yes, I did learn how to write, but the most important thing that I learned from that workshop was that for my writing to be good, I had to ask the right questions, and I had to answer those questions in my writing. So that's why I'm so excited to chat with you today.

Katrina Kibben:
03:50

Do you wanna do something really crazy? Is I actually started 3 Ears Media because someone told me I wasn't a good writer. I'm not kidding. And it was because of a punctuation mark. How crazy is that?

Rhona Pierce:
04:01

Right? That is interesting. Yeah. I was like, Oxford commas. I love my Oxford comma, and I use it every time.

Rhona Pierce:
04:07

So can you tell us a little more about that story and what led you to starting a company to teach recruiters how to be confident writers?

Katrina Kibben:
04:17

Yeah. So my background, if you looked at my

Rhona Pierce:
04:19

resume, you'd probably be a little confused because it's

Katrina Kibben:
04:21

a it's all over the place. God forbid I ever have to look for a traditional job again because I was a VP of marketing for an HR technology company. I was a managing editor for a blog all about recruiting. I was actually a technical copywriter for an employer brand agency. And the thing that I saw over and over again is there was this lack of confidence, and the joke I always make is recruiters have a block between their brain and their hands.

Katrina Kibben:
04:48

And somewhere along the way, we are told that what we say and how we talk about a job and how we talk to a candidate isn't good enough to write down, that we need to think harder about it. It needs more format. It needs a comma. It doesn't need the Oxford comma. Whatever it is, we were given these rules that don't serve us, and it was standing between recruiters and their success.

Katrina Kibben:
05:13

Meaning, they couldn't build great relationships with hiring managers because they weren't communicating things well. They were building great relationships with candidates, so they had a pipeline to fill. It was creating all these roadblocks. I was like, wait. I'm a writer.

Katrina Kibben:
05:27

I sit in the world of recruiting, and I all I have done is listen to smart people. Tell me about how they did what they did, and how can I turn this into a system that really works? And it started with writing and be evolved in to job postings because I realized just how important those are to our success.

Rhona Pierce:
05:44

Everyone knows you as the expert for job post writing at this point. What made you decide to start this training specifically on intake calls?

Katrina Kibben:
05:56

Yeah. Well, so fun crazy story. I actually tried to build job description writing AI, And I was I mean, years ago, I was part of an ethics board for AI, and I learned a lot about AI before it was a buzzword. And that got me thinking about the potential for that technology, but the problem was that I could format everything to the nth degree. I could create all the templates in the world, but the reality is that I could ask 2 people the exact same question and get wildly different answers.

Katrina Kibben:
06:30

And it helped me kinda take a step back to realize that the output is important, but the input is critical. You cannot find something if you can't communicate about what that thing is, and that has to happen during the hiring and your intake.

Rhona Pierce:
06:45

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. We've all been there. An intake call feels like pulling teeth, like the hiring manager isn't always the most cooperative person in the intake call.

Rhona Pierce:
06:58

What are some of the common mistakes that you've seen recruiters make in asking questions?

Katrina Kibben:
07:04

Yeah. You know, I think a lot of times the issue is that we ask for lists. And when you ask for a list, you'll always get one. But what that does is it plants a seed of dissatisfaction. Because when you have a laundry list, then any recruiter who's listening to this is going to start nodding as I describe this moment.

Katrina Kibben:
07:23

You know what I'm talking about? You get the list, and the most dangerous thing you can ever do is, okay. Great. And walk off without having that conversation and clarifying because there is no universal language around work. And so without any clarification, all you're doing is operating off of bias.

Katrina Kibben:
07:39

And, again, it just, like, stands in the way of everything that we're trying to be good at, which is me say making confident, less biased, hiring decisions.

Rhona Pierce:
07:48

Yes. We've all been there, and I can remember my baby recruiter days. That's how you were taught. Right? You go into an intake call and you ask for the wish list.

Rhona Pierce:
07:59

And as you go, you find out that what you understood this point on the wish list meant isn't exactly what the hiring manager meant. So, yeah, asking the questions is so, so important. The next best question, that's the name of your new training. Can you walk us through a real life scenario where asking the next best question completely changed the course of an intake call.

Katrina Kibben:
08:32

100%. You know, I I have one that's really obvious, and you're gonna laugh at this because I was doing a round of job postings for an airline, and I was talking to a plane mechanic. Okay? So this is the manager of all the people who fix the planes. When you're delayed because the seat won't go back or there's some little minor issue and we're waiting for that one person to come and fix it, that's this person.

Katrina Kibben:
08:56

And so I didn't know anything about this role, and I'm asking a lot of questions. And I asked a question, you know, what do you what do your best people have in common? Which is one of my very favorite questions Because what I find is, number 1, I always ask it at the end. And by that point, it feels repetitive, and it makes the hiring manager go, this is what I'm actually looking for because they're saying the same thing over and over again. But this was a scenario where I was totally pulling teeth.

Katrina Kibben:
09:25

Okay? Surprise, surprise. Mechanics aren't the most chatty people in the world. And he goes, well, a lot of them worked at McDonald's. And I was like, wait.

Katrina Kibben:
09:35

Wait a minute. There's no formal training program that you attend before you start working on planes. You just, like, show up and start working on planes. And in my head, I'm going, I'm never getting on a plane again. It's like never.

Katrina Kibben:
09:47

I no. If you go straight from the fryer to flying, I can't. I I just I already didn't feel safe. Like, I'm just not big. I I don't love love planes in the first place.

Katrina Kibben:
09:58

Turbulence kinda freaks me out. Like, no. He was like, no. No. No.

Katrina Kibben:
10:01

You go to school. You go to school. There's a school for mechanics. And and the reason I bring that up is because I think so often we have these assumptions. Right?

Katrina Kibben:
10:11

And for me, maybe it was assuming that you can just learn how to be an airline mechanic or for them assuming that I already knew that education existed. And, ultimately, that is the perfect example of how bias creeps into our processes. We bring all these assumptions about what good means, about what we're looking for, and what we need. And we're all human, so we all bring bias to that. And that, you know, that's kinda one of those moments, but the reality is those underlying biases are standing in the way of a lot of great people in work.

Rhona Pierce:
10:45

Yes. They are. How can recruiters identify and address the biases that may influence their questioning during intake calls? Yeah.

Katrina Kibben:
10:56

I I think there's kind of 2 answers to this. I think one is educating yourself. Okay? Go to the trainings. Go to the webinars.

Katrina Kibben:
11:06

Learn about bias, and make sure that you are an advocate and educator, That you can provide data, that you can actually have real conversations instead of being like, oh, that's biased. Because that's, like, the worst way to start a conversation about bias Yes. Is to be like red flag parade. Even though that's happening inside your head, that's not what we say out loud. Good thing.

Katrina Kibben:
11:28

And I think the other side of it is really just getting to the place where we we're not just educated, but we become somebody who can have that beginner mindset. K? So and what I mean by that is starting from a blank piece of paper. 1 of the things that I always do when I train recruiters on this is the first thing I tell hiring managers is that not to read me anything. Please don't read me anything that you have.

Katrina Kibben:
11:57

I want you to to just tell me the truth. And I watch how they soften when I start the conversation that way because they kinda come with their list. They come with their notes. They wanna be prepared. And, honestly, it's I I explained this part too.

Katrina Kibben:
12:11

It's more important for me as the recruiter, me as the intake leader to be prepared than them because they know the truth. They don't need to research it. I almost think the second you start to, like, create format and have them dumping things in the field, that's where, again, the bias starts to creep in.

Rhona Pierce:
12:26

Yeah. And I like that you said intake leader. That's something that a lot of the recruiters that I've managed and that I've coached don't necessarily make that click in their in their mindset. You are leading the intake call. It's not the hiring manager.

Katrina Kibben:
12:43

This is not a Dairy Queen.

Rhona Pierce:
12:44

This is not fast food. You are not sitting at

Katrina Kibben:
12:47

a window picking something off the board. And if it feels that way, you need to retrain your team. If it feels that way in any shape or form, that is a perfect moment and then a clear sign that you need type the type of training that I'm trying to build right now.

Rhona Pierce:
13:03

That is so funny that you said this is not a Dairy Queen because I remember, one of the last teams that I managed, I sat in on one of the recruiters' intake calls, and I was giving her feedback. And I said, I felt like asking you if I could supersize it. It felt like you were just taking orders. It's like, how much is it to supersize it?

Katrina Kibben:
13:23

Yes. And the thing is it and this is like a point blank. This is universal no matter your industry. The level you're recruiting for anything else is that if you have an order taker mindset, if if you are treated like an order taker because of your behavior, you lose something that you can't buy, sell, or trade, which is respect. You cannot buy respect.

Katrina Kibben:
13:43

It is a must have in this relationship because that is the gateway to having the hard conversations. That is the gateway to making more equitable decisions. That's the gateway for you actually doing your job as intended, not going and picking up the order. Because if we're just gonna do orders, go hire an agency.

Rhona Pierce:
14:01

Exactly. I've said that so many times, and it's so true. So in your 6 years of perfecting this skill of question asking, what's the most valuable lesson you've learned about asking effective questions?

Katrina Kibben:
14:17

Honestly, it's being prepared. I have okay. I've done this a really long time. I consider myself an expert in that question system. I've trained my own team.

Katrina Kibben:
14:28

I've trained thousands of other people how to ask the question. And the reality is that as much as we wanna templatize all of this, we need to have good core questions, a good expectation setting, and then you need to be really good at asking follow-up questions and willing to be like, I don't know the answer. Ego is going to stand in your way of doing a good job here. Right? Because that ego is like, well, I I know what Java I know how to use this data, whatever.

Katrina Kibben:
14:57

I I was an engineer. Right? And the reality is, like, no. The point is to understand this context and this role because, ultimately, great recruiters have the bell is what I like to call it. And it's when you have such a good conversation with the hiring manager that when you get on the phone with the right person, the bell goes.

Rhona Pierce:
15:16

Yes. And it's a lot of people think like, oh, I already know, and I've gotten it the other way because I'm a former software engineer, former engineering manager. And during intake, I've had a hiring manager tell me, well, you were an engineering manager. You know what I'm looking for. And it's like, absolutely not.

Rhona Pierce:
15:35

Treat me as if I have no clue about anything, and tell me what you're looking for because I know what I look for for that team, that company, that project. I have no clue until you tell me what you're looking for and what we need. So, yes, we will go through this intake call. We will answer these questions because it's different every time.

Katrina Kibben:
15:56

Exactly. And that that element of not there is no universal language of work. And that's why the AI can't do this part. That's why the form can't replace a meeting. I mean, even if you've filled a role 100 of times.

Katrina Kibben:
16:12

So I'm talking to your high volume, low retention recruiting teams who are just filling this same job 35 times. That is a okay. Every 3 weeks, we're checking in on quality. We're recalibrating. We're understandings, like, similarities because that's when you can system systematize and actually create scale around those.

Katrina Kibben:
16:35

Like, this is like, it blows my mind that anyone tries to hire anyone based off of, like, a Google form that someone filled out. Please don't do that.

Rhona Pierce:
16:46

No. You you just can't. But we've all been there at the intake calls, and you can be as prepared as you want to be. But sometimes, you just know that you have to be asking more questions. Like, you prepared your set of questions.

Rhona Pierce:
17:04

What strategies can recruiters use to think on their feet and do the on the spot? What's the next question I need to ask?

Katrina Kibben:
17:13

Yes. One of the most important tactics we teach and one that I find myself constantly recoaching even with my own set of writers is this idea of asking questions that create contrast. So when I run into a bias, someone out of the blue at the end of the call this is what ends up happening. Right? So I like to ask questions in a few different ways so that people feel like they're repeating themselves and want you to repeat yourself because now I know exactly what I mean.

Katrina Kibben:
17:41

And at the very end, I ask a question that can be dangerous. Is there anything we missed? Is there anything we didn't talk about? And so what will happen is people go, oh, college degree. I want 15 years of experience.

Katrina Kibben:
17:55

They start making shit up. Let's let's just call it like it is. Right? And that is the moment when you need to be ready to ask those questions that create contrast. Okay.

Katrina Kibben:
18:04

So what does someone with that degree know how to do that someone without them degree could not have learned how to do? What does someone with 15 years know that someone with 10 doesn't know how to do? Right? And really starting to understand the experiences that person has. And they often okay.

Katrina Kibben:
18:21

I will say this, and I'm probably gonna, like, eat my words in the next, you know, 5 weeks if I say this. But I will tell you that nothing has ever come up when I asked that question that didn't come up in some way during that full 30 minute conversation. I still ask the question because I want those lingering thoughts. Right? I do want to gather all of it.

Katrina Kibben:
18:42

And if something pops up, like, it might be something important like that mechanic. Right? Like, some people just aren't catty. They don't think of the thing till the end. But most of the time, that's where your bias is gonna show up, and you as a recruiter need to be ready to advocate on behalf of people who may or may not have that preferred thing?

Rhona Pierce:
19:01

Yeah. That's such a great question to ask because that's where you get all the the laundry list of things that they're assuming that you know, and that aren't necessarily, in my experience, that critical to filling the role. That's where you get the must have 15 years of experience because 14 isn't enough. Needs to have this specific college degree from this school because I know they're it's like, that that's where you start having those conversations, and that's where me as a TA leader have stopped requisitions, like, right there. Pause.

Rhona Pierce:
19:40

We're not posting this until you and I and potentially your manager and my manager and everyone's manager are on the same page about Yes. We're not gonna waste time trying to find someone from this specific school because it's not relevant to their day to day.

Katrina Kibben:
19:59

Exactly. And I love that you're like, I will elevate however we need to do this to make sure that we are all aligned. And I think that's a really, really important word because the next best step is alignment. It's writing it all down. It's making it explicit.

Katrina Kibben:
20:16

It's designing interview questions based off things that are real and true and absolute must have, cannot negotiate. Like, without the help of God, Google, and a really good mentor, you could not figure this shit out stuff. Right? And that is the process towards inclusive hiring. That is how we actually build equity, and the phrase that I've just saw this today was, like, merit based hiring, which don't even get me started on why we you think you need to use the word merit.

Katrina Kibben:
20:45

But if that's the conversation you wanna have, alignment is the conversation that you have first.

Rhona Pierce:
20:52

Yeah. Way before you post a role, way before you waste a candidate's time talking to them. You need to be on the same page internally. So Must. Yes, you must.

Rhona Pierce:
21:05

What success stories have you heard from recruiters who have implemented the strategies that you teach about asking questions and intake calls?

Katrina Kibben:
21:14

What's really beautiful is that I think we're opening the door for transferable skills and what I actually believe to be how work will work in the future. Because, ultimately, the statistics say that the makeup of the workforce right now, the jobs that exist today, that over 40% of them likely the jobs that exist today, that over 40% of them likely will not exist in the next 10 years. And so knowing that, I think it's really important to start preparing your hiring managers and recruiters for this idea that, like, maybe they didn't already have this exact job. Maybe there are series of experiences that would prepare you to be really successful at this job, and we can understand the experiences you had that would qualify you for this role. And it's giving opportunities to people who maybe wanna leave the education field and become a construction manager.

Katrina Kibben:
22:07

No joke. That happened last week. And they said, you know, it was actually they reported it back me, so we did this about 6 months ago. And they said, this has been our best one of our best construction hires ever, and this is the largest builder in the United States of America. This changes how they think about every single construction manager they hire.

Katrina Kibben:
22:26

And, ultimately, what we're doing is opening doors, and it's happening over and over again simply because we've taken the time to educate not just our recruiters, but our hiring managers, making this an effort of culture, not a recruiting initiative for managers only.

Rhona Pierce:
23:02

So, so good. Is there anything else that you see asking great questions, like contributing to the future of talent acquisition?

Katrina Kibben:
23:13

Yeah. So I my hypothesis here is that this is the number one skill as far as when we think about the skills that you must have in order to be part of this evolution, whatever it means for TA, is that with AI, it's gonna give you a lot of answers. That's that's kind of its purpose is synthesizing very large amounts of data. If you do not know what question to ask, you are useless. And I say that with a lot of love.

Katrina Kibben:
23:44

Right? I know we're a long way away because we don't have a great data set right now as far as recruiting and what success means because we do not have a lot of adoption because of fear. And there are a million other things standing in the way, but, ultimately, the number one skill you should try to be building right now is creativity because machines can't be creative. They're using you to do their creation. And so the creative element has to come from your mind.

Katrina Kibben:
24:11

It has to come from imagination. And I it makes me feel a little bit like mister Rogers, but truly, I think imagination is the thing that everybody should be investing their time in right now.

Rhona Pierce:
24:23

Yes. And anyone who uses AI, I use AI almost daily for a lot of things. I use it I call AI my employee because I have a company of 1 right now. So AI is my employee that helps me. But the thing is, if I don't ask it the right questions, the answers I get aren't that great.

Rhona Pierce:
24:46

The output that I get is not good. And every time I go back and it's like, wait. I even tell it, I should have asked it this way. And I ask it again, you go deeper and deeper and deeper, just like with humans, it gets better. So it's definitely a skill that we all need to dominate, really, if we wanna be successful.

Katrina Kibben:
25:07

I think, I real I listened to a podcast with, Adam Grant and will. I. Am from the Black Eyed Peas, who is very invested in futurism and has a very wide and deep knowledge of the future. And if anyone's interested in kind of, I think, the role that creativity will play in the workforce, that's where I got a lot of my inspiration even for this training and why I think it's important. Highly recommend it.

Katrina Kibben:
25:33

Also, will.ai am has a podcast where his cohost is AI. And the whole concept behind it was that he was like, I can't find a cohost who knows about what, you know, Spanish rhythm and Latin, you know, jazz all have in common. Right? And that's what he wanted to create. And so he told this I think it's the Iheartradio team he's working with.

Katrina Kibben:
25:58

He's like, I won't do a podcast and let me unless you let me use AI as my cohost, and that's what he created.

Rhona Pierce:
26:04

Wow. I'm gonna have to check that out.

Katrina Kibben:
26:07

It's it's just fascinating, and I I think these are all really creative uses of what we can can do in the future, but, of course, we're all keeping an eye on the legislation and the laws because, you know, I don't know if anyone's paying attention, but Workday is actually being sued as an agency because someone applied to over 50 Workday hosted ATSs. Right? Applied to 50 jobs and got rejected from all of them, and they're claiming that the Workday algorithm is what made that decision and why they didn't get hired, and Workday is being charged as a recruiting agency that was being biased and and discriminatory in their hiring decision. So I think this AI rush, all of it, it's like, do not invest in tools, invest in your creativity.

Rhona Pierce:
26:52

Great. Great piece of advice. What additional advice, do you have for recruiters looking to improve their question asking skills? I think,

Katrina Kibben:
27:05

honestly, just asking more questions. Right? Going out and listening to podcasts and webinars and intel that have nothing to do with recruiting and a lot to do with our empathy and how people connect. You know, there's just a super wealth of libraries of knowledge right now. That's the coolest part of the Internet to me is that you can go out and learn pretty much anything about anything if you want to.

Katrina Kibben:
27:31

And I do. I think there's a lot of value in investing in those soft skills at this time and going outside of recruiting to just learn how to be really good at being a human.

Rhona Pierce:
27:44

Great advice. What can you tell us about your training? I wanna hear all about it.

Katrina Kibben:
27:51

Yeah. You know, I think what makes it different is that it is both functional for recruiters. Right? We're breaking down all the details, teaching them how to prepare for the call, how to lead the call, like we were talking about. Right?

Katrina Kibben:
28:05

How to summarize and to synthesize a lot of information into something that makes sense and can kind of be the fodder. So it's almost like a data preparation training if you really wanna get in the weeds of the nerd, my nerdy thoughts, and being able to identify the skills and experiences that you absolutely have to have for success. What makes it different is that I've gone beyond this tactical place to really think about word transformation around this and providing workshops and lunch and learns for the rest of the company in how they prepare and be a part of this process. Teaching about how we design interview panels, who to pick, what questions to ask, how to assign those questions to the right people who can actually evaluate those answers, the importance of asking the same question every single time. Right?

Katrina Kibben:
29:01

I think a lot of training, it sits on one side or the other. We work with the hiring managers or we work with the recruiters. And I think having both sides, what I've learned from the job posting side, right, is I can create all the transformation I want with recruiters. And if they have no help having the conversation with hiring managers, it goes very slowly or nowhere at all. And we started offering that with the managers, teaching them what makes a good job posting because we couldn't present them something all new, and they'd be like, do you like it?

Katrina Kibben:
29:31

Right? Like, you need to kind of prepare people. Same thing goes with hiring manager intake. And frankly, any change we are making to overhaul the process, put your word in there. It can be anything.

Katrina Kibben:
29:43

We need to over educate people on what that means.

Rhona Pierce:
29:46

How can people get in contact with you if they wanna learn more about this training?

Katrina Kibben:
29:51

They can go to 3, like the number, all spelled out, ears, like the one in your head, media, m e v I a. We all know that one. 3earsmedia.com, and I actually have a Calendly link right there. And you can book a meeting with me 1 on 1, and I'm happy to kinda break it down for your team and listen to what's going on right now.

Rhona Pierce:
30:09

Amazing. Anything else that I forgot to ask you?

Katrina Kibben:
30:14

No. I I was gonna say, I think a lot of people enjoy my blog too, so I would encourage you to go over. It's just my name, katrinakibbon.com, and we produce content twice a week. One of it the first post of the week is all about a tactic or process that I think can make us better. And the second one is all about life because we don't get to separate who we are from what we do, and you work with people all day.

Rhona Pierce:
30:36

Katrina's blog is one of the best out there. I've been subscribed. I think it's a blog that I've been subscribed to the longest, and I've

Katrina Kibben:
30:44

never unsubscribed. And I

Rhona Pierce:
30:44

I'm one that's like, and I'm always action always actionable advice, always great insights, great tips. So yeah.

Katrina Kibben:
31:01

The biggest thing I try to do is give away the free stuff that makes us better every day and makes us better to each other. And I think you'll you'll catch that theme pretty quickly.

Rhona Pierce:
31:11

Amazing. Alright. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today.

Katrina Kibben:
31:17

Thank you having me. There's no place I'd rather be. That's for sure.

Rhona Pierce:
31:21

In this episode, Kat shared valuable insights on the power of asking the right questions during intake calls, creating alignment between recruiters and hiring managers, and preparing for the future of recruiting in AI driven world. If you're looking to make more accurate hiring decisions, Kat's upcoming inclusive hiring training series is designed to teach recruiters and hiring managers how to collaborate effectively, remove bias in decision making, and define the skills needed for each role. This investment in the quality of every hire you make is also a way to prepare for upcoming salary transparency laws and a step towards skills based hiring. To learn more about Kat's inclusive hiring training series, visit 3earsmedia.com. And for more actionable advice and insights from Kat, be sure to check out their blog atkatrinakibbon.com.

Rhona Pierce:
32:14

The links to both are in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.