#18: Visibility Creates Opportunity: How to be a great podcast guest with Orlando Haynes

Rhona Pierce:
00:00

There's a powerful way for recruiters to build their personal brand without creating tons of content. And my guest today is going to teach you how to do it.

Orlando Haynes:
00:09

Visibility creates opportunity. However, you can do that because we're right now, we're in the digital age space. And so you just have to be exposed depending on what your intentions are.

Rhona Pierce:
00:21

That's Orlando Haynes, a recruiter and podcaster who has created the ultimate guide on how to be a great podcast guest. You heard that right. We're not talking about starting your own podcast, but how being a guest on a podcast can help boost your visibility and attract candidates, clients, and opportunities. In today's episode, we cover how to choose the right podcast to appear on, strategies for staying authentic while on air, how to handle unexpected questions like a pro, common mistakes to avoid as a podcast guest, technical considerations to ensure you sound and look your best, and how to maximize the impact of your appearance long after the recording is done. Whether you're an experienced podcast guest or considering your first appearance, this episode is packed with actionable advice to help you make the most out of your podcast appearances.

Rhona Pierce:
01:19

Let's dive in to my conversation with Orlando. Hey, Orlando. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm excited to have you on the show.

Orlando Haynes:
01:29

Thank you so much, Rhona. I appreciate it.

Rhona Pierce:
01:32

So I saw the other day that you wrote a really great guide about how to be a good podcast guest. What inspired you to write it?

Orlando Haynes:
01:40

You know what? It's been because I've been doing it for almost 4 years now being on this side of the seat as a interviewer. You know, now being in the interviewee seat, it's something that I've noticed throughout multiple episodes. Plus, I've watched other podcasts that sparked that journey, and I always wanna make sure that whoever I have on is promoted and highlighted in the best way. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
02:04

So that's what we're doing. We're making sure we can showcase that individual, their talents, or expertise, whatever it is. And so I wanna make sure they know that coming on to any podcast affords them that opportunity so they can shine. Then as you talk about post production and things like that to where they can leverage that podcast, you know, for marketing efforts and things like that. So if it doesn't look right, doesn't sound right, then it's a miss both for the, you know, the the podcast host and the and the guest.

Orlando Haynes:
02:34

And so I just wanted to share a little bit basic tips to say, hey. If you're going down this journey, here are some basic fundamental things, you know, you should look out for so you can maximize, you know, your podcast appearances.

Rhona Pierce:
02:46

So it's great that you mentioned how it's a journey that people want to go on, and we know in talent acquisition as recruiters, we get it. Personal branding is important. If you really wanna be successful, you have to work on your personal brand. I think usually when people talk about it, they're talking about creating content. And I'm someone that says you don't necessarily have to create your own content.

Rhona Pierce:
03:13

And I think that being a guest on a podcast is like a cheat code shortcut to building your personal brand without having to create content. How do you think being a guest on a podcast can help your personal brand?

Orlando Haynes:
03:28

That's a great question. And so what what came to mind when you asked that is what I talk about with job seekers. Right? And so I tell job seekers, hey. Leverage other recruiters, or should I say, leverage recruiters.

Orlando Haynes:
03:41

Reach out to a recruiter and gather 3, 4, 5, 10 people that you know that are looking, that are in your, you know, in your market, in your ecosystem, that are friends, and ask that recruiter to say, hey. Can you come on this Zoom call and just share some best practices? And so a lot of recruiters don't get the tap to be necessarily be on a podcast just within their market, more or less, you know, bigger podcast to get some recognition. But the value in being a guest is that you can share your brand in but there's two sides to it. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
04:14

So I look at it as as a podcaster that when I have guests on, I'm creating multiple marketing, you know, members of my team. So I've done over a 140 episodes right now. So that's a 140 individual marketers that can promote that episode, you know, if it was a good quality episode. And then on the reverse, I can talk to all the things that I've learned throughout that journey, who I spoke to, and things like that, but also leverage my experience in that. So I think what I call it is called VCO.

Orlando Haynes:
04:46

It's just visibility creates opportunity. However, you can do that because we're right now, we're in the digital age space, and there's a great book by Gary v calling Day Trade Attention A lot of people are grabbing at, and that's when he talks about how to be visible everywhere to maximize sales, opportunities, etcetera. It's because we're on this we're in the social media age, and so you just have to be exposed depending on what your, you know, your intentions are. Don't do it just to do it. But if you're doing with an intention to grow so you can create opportunities, you can.

Orlando Haynes:
05:21

And I always look at it too that job seekers can leverage business practices for their career when it comes to the marketing. So they can choose to create content or, like you said, get on podcast and share, vlog their own journey, things like that. It doesn't have to be extensive. You don't have to have pull all the triggers, but it does help because you're creating eyeballs to your your LinkedIn profile that can thus result in a snowball effect for you to get opportunities.

Rhona Pierce:
05:49

And I love that VCO, visibility creates opportunity because it's true. And as recruiters, you're competing, especially in a market like this one, you're competing. Yes. There's a lot more jobs than job seekers right now, but that doesn't mean that people are just taking any job or working with any recruiter type of thing. So visibility is good.

Rhona Pierce:
06:14

Attention is good for attracting opportunities and candidates and all of that. But how do you determine which podcasts are a good fit for your expertise and for your target audience and your brand goals?

Orlando Haynes:
06:27

Yes. A great question. I would only look at ones that are in the same ecosystem as me. It's funny. I used to didn't think that way because I used to think, hey.

Orlando Haynes:
06:36

You know, more exposure is more exposure. Your message won't land with the wrong audience. And at that point, you just wasted, you know, 45 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour of your time and the host time to jump on that podcast. So there was one opportunity that I got to it wasn't a podcast, but it was a a virtual speaking opportunity with a $1,000,000,000 financial company here in Florida. But I'm thinking it was about career stuff, but it slightly was.

Orlando Haynes:
07:01

It was around African Americans and corporate America. And so I was like, okay. You know, it was Black History Month, and so they they funded that opportunity. I was like, okay. How much you know, what's my angle?

Orlando Haynes:
07:12

What can I share in this space? It wind up being good because I was able to give my journey, my experience through being in corporate for 20 plus years. And so there's different folks on there. But when I look at where I'm going to plant my message, who I'm going to partner with, And I also think about it, does my brand fit that brand? Even when I request guests, I wanna make sure that I'm asking them, does this fit your brand?

Orlando Haynes:
07:39

I can clearly see there's a synergy, but I wanna make sure they see it too before they just raise their hand to come on. And I've rejected folks who were just not in the same space. I'm not gonna talk about things that don't resonate with me or don't fit my beliefs. One company reached out, they did cannabis. I was like, I'm not gonna have you on talking about cannabis.

Orlando Haynes:
07:58

That's not. Right. That's my belief. I I don't partake, so there's no need for us to, you know, to meet. But it it has to be in that same career development ecosystem, and there's there's so many multilayers as as you know as well, Rona, that I I don't wanna necessarily pigeonhole to say my only message is, you know, personal brand and, like, we we share that in common, but it's talent acquisition, it's recruiting, it's all the other ancillary things that come with it, resumes, etcetera.

Orlando Haynes:
08:26

I can share a level of expertise in that. So if it fits again in that ecosystem, I'm able to say yes. I necessarily don't care what the audience level is, how large it is, but I do wanna know that the messaging is adding value if it's just just to have a conversation and there's no direct to actually help people, that's not a fit for me. I need to know that I'm going to help people anytime I open my mouth on my own podcast or anyone else's.

Rhona Pierce:
08:55

You've said some really good things, and it's it's so important. 1st, you really have to know your goals and what your real goal is with your personal brand. And that really helps you be like, okay. No. This isn't aligned or this is aligned.

Rhona Pierce:
09:11

The other thing that you mentioned is something that I see people fall into that trap. It's like, well, I don't wanna be on that podcast because it's new or I don't know how many listeners they have. I see it more as as long as I'm aligned with what the podcast is about, as long as it's aligned with my goals, I don't really care how many people listen to it because I'm gonna use that content too, and I'm gonna share. I know my audience. I know how many people I have.

Rhona Pierce:
09:43

So it's a mutually beneficial thing because maybe I help the podcast host get more eyeballs on their podcast. I know people with way larger audiences than mine have come on my podcast, and that has helped. But, also, people that are in my audience who because, I mean, you can be a large creator, but you don't necessarily have everyone's eyeballs. So people from my smaller audience have been like, oh, I didn't know about this person and about their expertise. So, really, it's all about your goals and how it aligns with your personal brand and metrics like that, like size and and things like that aren't really the best thing.

Rhona Pierce:
10:28

What about people that unlike us? So, yes, we are in talent acquisition, and you, for example, also do career coaching for job seekers. I work specifically, yeah, with talent acquisition and HR people. But what about recruiters who are recruiting, I don't know, let's say, in the trucking industry, for example. What type of podcast do you think or how can they determine what type of podcast would be aligned with their brand?

Orlando Haynes:
11:00

Yeah. I I don't think for them if they should look at just super niche. Because again, let's let's take the trucking industry as you said. You gotta think how many truck drivers listen to career related podcast and so and then there's a separator. Are they creating a podcast from the business?

Orlando Haynes:
11:19

So they're talking about industry specific stuff, you know, policies, what's happening in the market, what the shift is. Because I work for a company which was heavy logistics and had drivers. And so those conversations I was a part of, and we knew how many drivers were leaving the market, like, literally 100 of 1000 by 2020 and 2021. So we had that data. And so that's something they could have shared on a podcast to just say, okay.

Orlando Haynes:
11:45

Hey. We're a source of information in this in this logistics and transportation industry. Here's why you should listen to us. If a recruiter targeting candidates, then it's a little more specific and different in their communication, at least from my opinion. I think they can share more stuff about the the culture, the opportunity.

Orlando Haynes:
12:03

Here's what's going on. Also, some data around the industry, so it's a bit of a mix just so they can, you know, data mine folks and and get some, you know, build their talent pipeline. And so that communication's a bit different. I think they can still go broad versus going super, super narrow because you may just lose the audience. And you also gotta think at least the way I do.

Orlando Haynes:
12:24

It's not so much if I can hit the 1st person because that first person may not be my audience. But they may know someone, and they may know someone. So creating that trickle effect, that snowball effect in my communications, they may say, hey. Hey, Rona. You know, I just heard this this podcast about trucking over at this company called, FedEx.

Orlando Haynes:
12:43

Right? Doesn't your brother have a CDL license and things like that? Hey. I think he should check it out. They sound like they're hiring, etcetera.

Orlando Haynes:
12:50

But I'm in finance, but I know you, and I happen to know your brother is in it. So there's that trickle effect that can happen as long as the information, I think, is relevant enough to an audience. Now I would've listened if I woulda listened and it was specific around, hey. Here are the numbers that's happening in the market and nothing was said about hiring opportunities. I woulda bypassed it.

Orlando Haynes:
13:11

I was like, I don't know anything. You know? I don't care about that. I'm skipping it. They're talking about hiring.

Orlando Haynes:
13:16

It just so happens to be in the transportation and logistics, you know, industry. So I think recruiters who are looking to do that, if they're corporate recruiters, and also I can share later on about what an agency recruiter would talk about then, there is a little bit of a mix because there there's a difference between those 22 types of recruiters.

Rhona Pierce:
13:36

What's the difference? What would an agency recruiter talk about in this example?

Orlando Haynes:
13:41

Yeah. So I would think therefore, there's a great opportunity for that agency recruiter to share personal stuff and their expertise because they're gonna say, hey. I specialize in accounting and finance. You know, I work in these markets, you know, California, Nevada, etcetera, and I only focus on director level and above. And here are the types of roles I look for.

Orlando Haynes:
14:05

CFOs, senior finance analyst, directors of finance accounting, comptrollers, controllers, etcetera. And so they can then highlight where their level of expertise to hopefully draw the right attention to the folks. And there's different ways you can do it. When Clubhouse if you remember Clubhouse, when they came out, there was large tech companies that were hosting talks about the organization, and that was their way to create talent pipeline. Well, we have LinkedIn audio now.

Orlando Haynes:
14:30

Why not do the same thing? Right? If you know you you have a a massive hiring need, why not the organization reach out and saying, hey. If you're an agency recruiter, I work for 3 large companies in the area, whether they're big 4 or not in accounting or whatever it is in that area. Here's what I'm gonna be sharing.

Orlando Haynes:
14:49

Make the post, make it 30 minutes or 4 an hour, and just speak to what the opportunities are. And then what you can do from there it's it's just another way of talent pipeline creation, but it also helps their personal brand because they'll they'll know, hey. Rona does this every 3 weeks or once a month strictly around accounting and finance positions director and above. I'm that candidate. I need to know what she's talking about.

Orlando Haynes:
15:12

And so, again, you share the opportunity, share your expertise, share market relevancy. And so now you're creating this belief and perception around you, which it should be true, that you're the go to person in that market for these types of roles. And that's a standout thing versus the traditional model. And, unfortunately, staffing and recruiting staffing agencies, that model is broken. It's been the same for, I don't know, 40 plus years.

Orlando Haynes:
15:37

And so I think they desire a mix up in you work with folks like that. So that's they need that mix up and how to create more or less a small media company to build their personal brands, build the the brand of the company, but become expertise, their thought leadership, etcetera, so they can attract the right system. I mean, now that creates multiple talent pipelines, versus just letting them apply to the ATS. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
16:03

Yeah. So okay. Now listeners are aware of their goals. They know which podcast to target. What's your approach or what approach do you recommend to pitching yourself as a guest on a podcast?

Orlando Haynes:
16:19

You know what? I rarely do. So I rarely pitch myself. I've been lucky enough to been asked for a few times, and plus, I've been so focused on growing my podcast. And so when I do this again, I think I'll just reverse engineer.

Orlando Haynes:
16:36

My earlier answer was, yeah, does it align? And I actually built out a list of podcasts in the space that I'm a start pitching to. So it's not like I'm not going to do it. I have it, but I just been so focused to so I can capture, you know, some great talent and share some, expert advice and create additional opportunities for myself as well. But at the same time, I said, you know what?

Orlando Haynes:
16:57

Now is now is a good time. I've been doing it for years. It's getting a little visibility. It's heard across, you know, 16 countries. Great.

Orlando Haynes:
17:04

And so how do I leverage that to then say, hey, when you partner with me as a guest, here's what I'm also bringing to the table. So I wanted to build up some equity on that aside from, you know, 20 plus years, talent acquisition, author, speaker, etcetera, which I think a lot of us are doing. But for us, folks like us who have that duality background in a podcast, while also bringing expertise, quote, unquote, expertise, and then an audience with us. So I think there's more weight, gravitas, and, you know, exposure to that to say, hey. I'm also bringing my I'm not just happening to yours.

Orlando Haynes:
17:43

I'm bringing my audience to you as well. So this is definitely gonna be beneficial. And so that's what I wanted to do, and that's how I'm going to package it all, not just my experience, but also the podcast weight and leverage and reach of that. So hopefully, that helps into to, you know, to expose me to more podcast. And, again, it has to be in that ecosystem.

Rhona Pierce:
18:01

Yeah. So both of us have podcasts, and we have an audience that we've been working on for years. A lot of the folks that are listening don't have a huge audience or don't really do a lot as far as their personal branding. So let's kind of reverse engineer this. How do you go about figuring out who you should invite to your podcast as a guest?

Orlando Haynes:
18:29

Yep. Great question. So it doesn't matter to me the so I do a lot of my searching on LinkedIn. Alright. That's the that's the best platform in my estimation.

Orlando Haynes:
18:40

And so I don't look at whether you have 10,000 followers, 50, a 100 plus. It doesn't matter. I look at the content because I wanna see what the messaging is, and are you adding value? So my tagline for for career talks podcast is providing actionable advice for your career and life. And so when I talk to guests, my goal for every single episode, Rhona, is that some someone listening can say when I had you on mind a few years back is that what she said made sense.

Orlando Haynes:
19:15

I'm going to apply it today, and I should start seeing a difference in my job search efforts or interview or my, you know, growth to getting hired, etcetera. Whatever the topic is, they need to at least walk away with one golden nugget from each episode that they can apply immediately. And for me, it's about taking massive action. So immediate massive action, which Tony Roberts talks about a lot. And so or imperfect action or commit first, figure out the rest later.

Orlando Haynes:
19:44

Right? So just really centered around that. And so when I look at a potential guest, it's what are they saying? What are they sharing? Is it antiquated information?

Orlando Haynes:
19:54

Is it up to date? Because if it's antiquated, I don't need that. If it's up to date, if it's different angle, I wanna hear it. And so then that's what makes me reach out. Again, I can care less how big their following is.

Orlando Haynes:
20:06

It doesn't matter. It's the messaging because I'm thinking about the listener first to extract one nugget and go apply it.

Rhona Pierce:
20:12

Yeah. It's very similar to my approach. And as you said, I have been on a few podcast. I've never actually pitched myself. I think I pitched myself once to a live show many years ago, Kamara Toffolo, who's actually full circle gonna be on my show soon.

Rhona Pierce:
20:32

I pitched myself to her way back when, and that's the only time I've ever pitched myself for a podcast. Every other time it's been the host that has reached out, but it's been because, hey. I saw your post about this or I was in their comments. They posted something and I commented something and they're like, I like that your approach. Let's talk about it more.

Rhona Pierce:
20:56

Do you wanna come on my podcast? Mhmm. So indirect pitching might be a way. And for recruiters, this is easy. You're already doing it.

Rhona Pierce:
21:06

You're already networking or should be Mhmm. Out there creating any type of like, small types of content or in the comments that could lead to podcast

Orlando Haynes:
21:18

Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
21:19

Interviews request. So

Orlando Haynes:
21:21

So I've been lucky enough now that I necessarily don't have to reach out only because I get pitched a lot of folks from companies that specialize in getting you on podcast. And so if I were to accept 5% of those, that would book me out quite a bit. But for some reason, I'm just enamored by, LinkedIn, so I stay on that platform because I can see the content. It's easier for me to see it versus gets pitched, and then I have to go look. If their talking points don't align, then no.

Orlando Haynes:
21:50

But I've been blessed that way. And one of my secrets of staying consistent is just making sure I book, like, 3, 4 months in advance of guests. So, again, it's that commit first, figure out the rest later.

Rhona Pierce:
22:02

What's the best pitch that you've got from a guest that isn't a PR company? So, yeah, we know they're experts. But, like, someone just in their house wants to be on your podcast. What's the best one? Do you remember it?

Orlando Haynes:
22:17

I don't know if I got a great pitch because they do come at least every week. I couldn't say it's not a high frequency from from LinkedIn, but it's enough to where, again, I can book. But I don't think anyone necessarily stood out because I'm always gonna look at their content. But there's additional ways that I find is if it's an audio event, whatever event, and I'm like you just mentioned, right, in the comments. And that's why it's so key to have your LinkedIn profile optimized in that header stand out.

Orlando Haynes:
22:48

I can see exactly what they do. The first sentence is career coach or grief coach or the whatever coach, and I'm like, oh, okay. Executive coach. Let me just quickly see. Did I quickly go to what's their, activity on the profile or on the platform?

Orlando Haynes:
23:02

So I just wanna make sure that they're active. Now if they're they can have this grand old title and beautiful headshot and beautiful banner, But if there's no activity, I'm like, they're all they have is a profile. They don't have a presence. I do need people who have at least a presence. Like, they're actively posting, putting out content.

Orlando Haynes:
23:22

It doesn't again, the following doesn't matter, but they're engaging and and sharing in that information. So but no slam dunk, like, woah pitch that came my way that that I can recall. I guess if you follow them high profile people that were, you know, that are in our ecosystem of career development, like, Wall Street Journal bestsellers, New York Times best selling authors, international speakers as well that are actively on the platform and literally travel around the world speaking. And so been lucky to have those folks, you know, join the podcast early on. Well, I had zero following, kinda podcast, you know, acumen, etcetera.

Orlando Haynes:
24:00

But they're willing to always come back and and share some information. So I I appreciate that.

Rhona Pierce:
24:05

Yeah. I the the main takeaway is, like you said, have a presence, not just a profile. Because as a podcast host, it's also a big risk that you're taking if you invite someone on your podcast that you know nothing about. There's no content, you don't know what they really think, it's like, that's a huge risk. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
24:26

I know I'm not willing to take a risk to invite someone who I know absolutely nothing about and find out during a recording. I like, it's that's not something I'm gonna do.

Orlando Haynes:
24:37

No. And I do mine live, so that's that's even the the second layer. So I I do the live capture try to capture that audience then repurpose it on audio, etcetera. But, yeah, never I would never take that risk, and they say something completely off whack or inappropriate. And I wanna make sure, you know, no one's using foul language, etcetera.

Orlando Haynes:
24:57

And so that would be a high risk. And I always thought that, like, what would I do? Would I just kill the broadcast right right in the middle of it? So I I say, you know what? To avoid all that, let me fact check who these people are and, you know, do the intro before the go live date and and and talk through logistics.

Rhona Pierce:
25:15

Exactly. So alright. Let's say you've pitched yourself. You are going to be a guest on a podcast. What's your, like, go to strategy to prep when you're invited as a guest on a podcast?

Orlando Haynes:
25:28

Yeah. So it depends on the topic. Well, my strategy would be the same. So the topic may require me to do a little more research than anything else. As a podcaster, you know, we all have different styles and approaches.

Orlando Haynes:
25:41

I'm more of a free flowing person, so it I personally don't give the guest any upfront questions. And if it's given to me, that's fine. That all works because it's still a conversation. Right? Anything can happen in a free flowing conversation.

Orlando Haynes:
25:54

So it all depends on who the audience is too. Right? Because you you try to be authentic as much as you can, but there's still a level of, okay, this is a little more audience that's a little more, for lack of a better term, more prestige or stuffy. So, you may not can be your full self because it it it just won't land. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
26:17

Certain jokes for a comedian won't land in a certain audience, so you have to tailor it. So you have to know more about the audience. Who is it for? What's the community like? What are they really what's their pain point so I can speak directly to it again so they can walk away with the actionable advice.

Orlando Haynes:
26:31

And then, you know, I do the research. And I practice I'll put some slides together if just for myself, but then I'll make sure in my head, I'm I'm going over talking points and and knowing what I wanna bring up specifically in the discussion and also what points I wanna harp on. Right? We all we've get we'll we've given talks and presentations, and so there's certain parts of it you wanna emphasize. So I'll walk through the mechanics of that.

Orlando Haynes:
26:55

But by no means am I a, a speaker coach. But things that I've learned, I'm sure you've learned as well, Rhonda, through through our experience is that you wanna be able to get the I think of the end goal in mind is, okay. Again, when I finish, you should be able to take something I've said, if not 1, 2, or 3 things, and immediately apply it. And I would always love to hear the feedback. Oh, it was this.

Orlando Haynes:
27:19

It was that. And the the funny part is whether it's a podcast or live, I kinda approach those the same. It's always too you really don't know if it's landing, even if they're laughing with you and things like that, until someone comes up and says, hey, Rhonda. What you said about this in the personal branding piece, oh my god. That was incredible.

Orlando Haynes:
27:41

I I know what to do now. I can't wait to apply it on x and that's why I'm like, okay. It worked. Okay. It was okay.

Orlando Haynes:
27:48

At least one person said something.

Rhona Pierce:
27:51

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, that's all you can do. You can really research, and I love that you are talked about the audience because, yeah, lots of people focus on researching the host. That's cool and everything, but, like, you're there, hopefully, so that the listeners of this podcast can learn something. So researching who they are and tailoring your prep to them and their pain points is really a great way to prepare for a podcast.

Rhona Pierce:
28:20

Mhmm. Now how can you make sure that you stay authentic to yourself, your brand message, and your goals after you like, you're prepared, you know everything about the audience or as much as you can. How do you make sure that you stay authentic in your answers?

Orlando Haynes:
28:40

Yeah. That's true. So I would never take on an opportunity that I'm not versed in. So even they can you know, because you can get asked, hey. I've you gotta and for the folks who may look at it, Rona has a big brand.

Orlando Haynes:
28:51

She's doing this. She should be able to talk about this. Orlando does this. He should be able to talk about that. Well, not not exactly.

Orlando Haynes:
28:57

If you've done the research or looked on our websites or even just looked, you know, at our profiles, we don't specialize in that. So in my corporate job, part of the role I do is in the DNI space, but I would necessarily never go on a panel as a DNI expert. Like, I'm not gonna do that. I'll get eaten alive. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
29:18

And so I would never position myself into that. Even though it's in the career ecosystem, I would never take that leap and say, hey. Yes. You know, diversity, inclusion, equity, all the different, titles or letters that it's that's, attached to it now. Unfortunately, it's being dismantled, but I would never take that chance.

Orlando Haynes:
29:39

Now the specialties that I talked about earlier, that's what I would do. I'll stay in my lane. I'll stay in my lane and focus. Being authentic, my personality is gonna come across. I know I my voice is I'm conscious of that.

Orlando Haynes:
29:52

It's monotone. So I have to be conscious as, conscious of how I relay that. How do I lift my, you know, my tone? And it's funny. When I always hear it back, it still sounds the same.

Orlando Haynes:
30:03

I'm like, oh my god. I can't do nothing. So so I'm aware of that. My hand gestures, my my facial expressions, not to create a false narrative of who I am, but it may be something I'm saying that you can see the increase in passion. It's like, oh, he's really talking about this one right here.

Orlando Haynes:
30:21

He's he's going a little bit deep or maybe long winded, like I feel I am now. But it's those moments that I think about and just saying, hey. I'm a I'm a tell you who I am. I'm not gonna give you this gravitas of 20 years and all this, and you you can read about that. You came you asked me to be here to speak about something.

Orlando Haynes:
30:40

Let me impact your audience again so they can walk away something, actionable. And so that's my that's what I think about what being authentic is. Who am I helping at the end of end of that message, talk, podcast, conversation, etcetera.

Rhona Pierce:
30:56

How do you make sure for, like okay. Let's say folks are going to do this. This is they're gonna be their personal branding strategy. They're going to be on podcast. Mhmm.

Rhona Pierce:
31:06

How can they make sure that their message is is coming across consistently over different podcast? Right?

Orlando Haynes:
31:15

So I think about that in in terms of an actor or a Broadway actor or comedian. Right? So a comedian who goes on tour will tell the same jokes with a slight twist night after night after night. Right? So they have to master their first set, whatever that set is, and then tweak it per audience to make it funnier or to fit that audience and to make it funnier.

Orlando Haynes:
31:42

So for us, as folks who take on speaking opportunities, we should, I think in my head, right, apply that same principle is you're gonna change it a little bit here and there, but stay on message. Like, yes. It it can get boring repeating yourself, but that's the goal because you go on 1 podcast. That's not every podcast. You may capture 10 people.

Orlando Haynes:
32:04

You you if your goal is to capture a million, you better keep saying that message over and over and over. And if, like, you see actors go on a promotional tour, they're being asked probably the same 10 questions over and over and over, so they have to repeat that same messaging. Right? Just so more people will hear it. It resonates, and that's how really from an external looking in your brand is building, and that's where you're changing the narrative, and you're being known for x.

Orlando Haynes:
32:33

Rona is known for x. Orlando is known for x because I heard it in Amsterdam. I heard it in Germany. I heard it in the US and California and Florida, etcetera. But if you've only told it once thinking it's gonna land for the masses, you're wrong.

Orlando Haynes:
32:47

So be comfortable. Be able to say that same, you know, whatever that topic is. Have your your core several topics that you can speak to. But, yeah, there'll there'll be some variance because over time, things change, so you have to tweak and update the data. But I think that will be the best way to look at it, because repetition is what makes it better, and then that would communicate to the masses.

Orlando Haynes:
33:13

You you just have to continue to say the same thing over and over.

Rhona Pierce:
33:16

Yeah. I always say, and I've said in a few episodes before, when you're bored of the saying the same thing, that's when you know you're doing great.

Orlando Haynes:
33:26

That's good. Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
33:27

Because you've said it so many times. It's now like second nature just rolls off your tongue type of thing. It's like, you know it. It's your thing. That's when you can be like, okay.

Rhona Pierce:
33:37

That's when people start making that association of Orlando is is the person for this. Rona is the person for this. That's when you start building your brand, when you repeated it over and over and over again. Yep. So how do you handle unexpected questions?

Rhona Pierce:
33:55

Like, in the middle of a podcast? Some people, like you said, give you questions ahead of time and stick to those. Some people like me give you, like, themes and questions and hardly ever stick to them. It's so Which

Orlando Haynes:
34:09

is great. It's great. I love it.

Rhona Pierce:
34:11

And some people don't give you a guide at all. It's just a main topic. So how do you handle unexpected questions that arise during an interview?

Orlando Haynes:
34:21

So I think that's the beauty of it. Right? And to to your earlier question about being authentic, if I don't know, I'm a tell you. Great question. I don't know, Rona.

Orlando Haynes:
34:31

What are your thoughts? Let's, you know, we can mastermind this, like, right now and figure out I can give you my opinion. I won't be able to back it up with any facts if I don't know about it, but I don't mind the curveball. For most of us, we can think pretty good on our feet. And so I'm okay with, again, the curveball, a screwball, fastball that wasn't preset, and it's a challenge.

Orlando Haynes:
34:55

And that makes me mentally get faster in my thinking to say, okay. Well, maybe I do know something. It was just so deep. I just didn't recognize it, so that question sparked it. But and then it's like, oh, you know what?

Orlando Haynes:
35:08

I may not know this, but here's someone who do who does, and let me just share a little bit about what I've heard. Don't take it as bible. I'm just sharing my tidbit. But, yeah, if I don't know, I'm not gonna profess to know to try to seem like a expert, and then that's where it all comes crumbling down. And then you're a fraud, you're this, and that's not my brand.

Rhona Pierce:
35:29

Great. Great advice. And I I take a similar approach. I just say something like, well, anecdotally Mhmm. Or this is what I think, like, if I don't have I've been on on shows where people ask me things, and I'm like, I mean, I know this because of my experience, for example, as a job seeker.

Rhona Pierce:
35:48

Not I haven't worked in this side of talent acquisition, so I definitely don't know this type of thing. So it's like you there's always some sort of way you can get to it. Mhmm. But, yeah, being honest is is the most important part. So what are some common mistakes that you've seen people make as podcast guests, and what do you recommend they do to avoid them?

Orlando Haynes:
36:12

Yeah. How much time we got? So one of the things that also sparked me to put out the ebook, 10 steps to maximize your podcast appearances, is that I would say if you're able to so if you're a coach, a business person, whatever it is, if your goal is to say, okay. I'm going to get more exposure by getting on podcast. So you have to be mindful of think about every tool that the podcaster host is using you need.

Orlando Haynes:
36:39

Not to the same level or degree, but you need the basics. Right? The good mic, good camera. If you're using your iPhone, that's great. Whatever.

Orlando Haynes:
36:48

High quality. Everything from how close you are up to the camera so you're filling the frame. And I've learned this because I had a a woman on my podcast who was a, news reporter, and she was an Emmy Award news reporter. And so she literally gave me a class right in that discussion. Hey.

Orlando Haynes:
37:07

We noticed that I can tell that you have an an above light because it's shining on your head. You should be about 3 inches from the top of the frame, filling it out as much as possible, etcetera, etcetera. So I learned these different tactics throughout my journey. And so I just wanted to share that. But, yes, you need to make sure audio is probably the number one thing because you'll find out, and I might have put that in the ebook, people will listen to a podcast with bad visual versus listen to a podcast with bad audio and great visual.

Orlando Haynes:
37:37

So the goal is you want them to listen because there's so many ways you can hear it. And so with that, they need to make sure the audio is number 1 if you're going live. Be super, super clear, be up close and personal. I did have a guest that was way, way back, and it just didn't look right. It was so unbalanced.

Orlando Haynes:
37:56

I was like, can you pull us up closer? And that person was just like, nope. You know, it's fine. It should be able to rock and roll. The audio was bad.

Orlando Haynes:
38:04

It was echoey. I was like, I don't think I pushed it out. I might have, but I didn't do any post edits and, you know, promote clips because it it just didn't look good. And so I wanted to make sure that as I evolve as a podcaster, you know, the quality of the the stuff looks good. Plus, they again, like we talked about earlier, the guest can use it.

Orlando Haynes:
38:24

And to this day, that person is still doing the same thing. I'm just like, oh my god. And that person commented and and got my my ebook, and I'm like, you're still not you didn't take note, though. You got the ebook, but you're still you know, the the content that person was sharing is good good advice. But just visually, aesthetically, it didn't look good.

Orlando Haynes:
38:46

I'm like, and so that's just to help the both you and the guest, you know, be able to use that as marketing, going forward because people you look at it part you know, maybe a company wants to partner with you, but they see it it just aesthetically doesn't fit their brand. They're like, maybe not. Content is great, but we may not wanna have you on as a a visual guest.

Rhona Pierce:
39:10

And some of the things that you've said are, like, crucial. So Mhmm. Yes. A good camera and all of that is important, but how you frame yourself

Orlando Haynes:
39:17

Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
39:17

Is super important. Some people do this thing where they're like, there's this ton of headspace, then it looks like you look this tiny. It doesn't inspire authority or anything. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
39:29

Nope.

Rhona Pierce:
39:29

Because it's like, okay. This this tiny person. And then there's people who are, like, so up close and personal, like, right here in your face. And I I just did a no no. I, like, covered my face as I'm talking.

Rhona Pierce:
39:41

But, like, you're so up close that it's then, like, intimidating or, like, putting your camera above you. So all of these things are important and a lot of hosts give you those guidelines. So I'm gonna say something. Yes. Audio is important.

Rhona Pierce:
39:57

Super important. That's the most important part. Video and how you frame yourself and, like, the lighting basic lighting is important. The most important thing really is being in communication with your host.

Orlando Haynes:
40:10

Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
40:10

Asking them for these tips. A lot of hosts have these tips already in your invites. Like, I have it right after you schedule. You go to a page with my tips and what to expect. I expect, yes, to read that and do those basic things because it's like no one's telling you go out and buy a $300 microphone or anything like that.

Orlando Haynes:
40:34

Nope.

Rhona Pierce:
40:34

But one that works clearly and you can get crisp audio, that's the most important thing.

Orlando Haynes:
40:40

I would even encourage them to right. This particular mic look like we both have Yetis that are less than a 100. There are some that are less than a 100 that still work fine. So, again, if you're gonna go on this journey, folks, in at least the mic minimum, then the secondary is definitely the visual and just apply every tip that Ron and I is sharing because it's your brand. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
41:02

It's your brand. It's almost like getting dressed up and but your shoes are dirty. It's like, ah, you were almost there. You're almost a a great package, but we just need to make these slight tweaks, put a little shine, you know, better shoelaces or whatever, and then it'll look better when you use that as a marketing tool. So, just be mindful of that for sure.

Rhona Pierce:
41:23

Your guide mentioned something that I loved, which is analyzing and learning from each appearance. Like, what's a key lesson that you've learned from this self analysis that has helped you improve as a podcast guest and host?

Orlando Haynes:
41:39

Yeah. For me, in particular, which is some of the things I look at is I still make mistakes. Right? We're we're human. I still make mistakes with the audio.

Orlando Haynes:
41:48

If my mic is not connected correctly, I don't hear it until the after I do the precheck. But then after we're up and running and I I check it, I'm like, oh my god. It sounds like I'm way in the back. My mic didn't connect correctly. And so I'm like, okay.

Orlando Haynes:
42:02

Be conscious of that. 2 is the cadence in which I speak. Sometimes I'll talk too fast. You know, I have a lisp. It it'll jumble the words.

Orlando Haynes:
42:11

And so I have to be mindful. Hey. Slow down. Be clear. Stay looking at the camera.

Orlando Haynes:
42:16

My eyes tend to wander a lot. And so I wanna make sure, again, I'm connecting. And so I have to be mindful of that in between, questions, in between, you know, thoughts, and making sure I'm coming across clear posture, everything. Little by little, I'm I'm going back to my natural state versus, okay, let me sit up. How close am I to the mic, etcetera.

Orlando Haynes:
42:37

So all these different things are just racing through my head. And it was funny, Rhonda. I hate listening to my my own podcast. And so when I do that, I'm more or less listening for the sound. And then I hear myself if I'm trying to make a point and it's not coming across clear.

Orlando Haynes:
42:53

I'm like, okay. I gotta I gotta do better. I gotta slow down. I gotta think more clearly because I'll get excited. And it's like I said, I'll stumble across my words.

Orlando Haynes:
43:02

So I'm just like, okay. Let's calm down. Be mindful. And so I'm trying to be more mindful again on how I verbally communicate because that's the key with a podcast. Right?

Orlando Haynes:
43:13

It could be on YouTube. It can be wherever you wanna listen to it. And the main thing is, is it coming through clear for the audience to resonate with it? So those are some of the the things that I look for and try to get better with each podcast. You know, you can be nervous.

Orlando Haynes:
43:28

I'm okay with my nerves, but it's still, like, you just never know. You just never know. Anything can happen. You're like, oh my god. I gotta I gotta be ready for this.

Orlando Haynes:
43:37

Yeah. So it's a it's a evolution.

Rhona Pierce:
43:39

Yeah. It's never gonna I have a checklist for when I'm a guest, and I have a checklist for when I'm a host. And this checklist has grown as I don't like listening to my own episodes. But when I first started, I used to edit them myself, so I was forced to listen to them. And now I don't edit my own episodes, but still anything that's gonna have my name attached to it when I release it, I need to make sure.

Rhona Pierce:
44:04

And I love my the team that I work with, and I trust them, but I still listen to every single episode because my name is attached to it. So I'm forced to listen to it. Mhmm. And then it's like, okay. I should have done this, adding this to the checklist next time to to make sure whatever just happened.

Rhona Pierce:
44:21

So, yeah, it's just it it's evolving, but you get you get better the more you do it, but you do have to analyze your appearances and what you've done.

Orlando Haynes:
44:31

Yeah. I don't think anyone's perfect unless, you know, you're talking about, you know, the Gary V's of the world and, you know, those folks have such a freedom, I guess, because they at that point, financially, they're they're good. If it's crumbles, they're gonna be fine. Right? So there's a certain freedom that comes with, you know if you've learned yourself and fully confident in your abilities, great.

Orlando Haynes:
44:56

Then there's that aspect of, hey. I'm at a point where I can care less what anybody says. It's not gonna impact my life. And so once you reach that, I think you get more comfortable no matter how you come across in a podcast, but you're still conscious because if you're someone who cares about the end result of what your what your message is, and you're still conscious about it. So he's one of the people that I look at a lot.

Orlando Haynes:
45:18

He definitely, you know, for my liking, too much cursing. But he gets his point across with absolute clarity, passion, and he's always thinking about the the listener and saying, hey. Take it or leave it. This is what I'm seeing, but take action.

Rhona Pierce:
45:36

So we've mentioned on it throughout the conversation, but after the recording, right, what steps do you take to make sure that your appearance as a guest continues to work for your brand?

Orlando Haynes:
45:50

Yeah. So if after that, you know, how the guest or how the host works, should I say, if providing the, you know, the assets or any clips or things like that or the full episode, my goal is then is to leverage it now thinking as a podcast. So how can I push this out to as many as people in the email, newsletter, whatever that is to promote, you know, the best parts? Right? The parts where, like you see on YouTube.

Orlando Haynes:
46:15

Right? They'll clip a a dramatic part, putting at the put it to the beginning and start the whole podcast, which is a capture. So how do I capture the audience in one of those clips as well? And so I'll put that on the you know, I'll note that in my speaker one sheet. I've been on this podcast.

Orlando Haynes:
46:33

I've been on this podcast. Because that builds credibility. Right? And so that that helps you land more opportunities like we talked about earlier when you pitch yourself because you've been on multiple platforms. It's just that much easier.

Orlando Haynes:
46:45

So when you you stack up a bunch of things and saying, hey, I'm presenting a 3 tier cake versus a a sheet. A 1 tier cake, it's a lot more tastier and aesthetically looking like, oh, this person, he or she bring brings a lot to the table. They have this going for them, this going for them, this going for them. And so that just helped you as the guest to self market to create more opportunities. But again, for me in particular, I'm like, is the value there?

Orlando Haynes:
47:13

Did I land if I totally bombed the interview, I'm not gonna use it. I don't wanna you know? And I apologize. I'm like, hey. That was that was completely awful.

Orlando Haynes:
47:22

My apologies. If you wanna run it back, great. If not, I I get it. But it's how can I again, and I'll I'll beat a dead horse is how can I add value to that to that listener? So my goal is to to leverage the the marketing of postproduction stuff.

Rhona Pierce:
47:39

Yeah. And and the cool thing about 2024 and AI and how it's evolved because as someone who started being a guest on podcast before some of these tools existed, the cool thing is now, even if the guest doesn't give you the little short clips or assets, if they put it on YouTube or pretty much anywhere, you can use tools. And I'll link my 2 favorite ones in the show notes, But you can use tools where all you do is drop the link of the YouTube, and then the tool goes and clips the best moments. And you can edit it and, like, just share that on social media.

Orlando Haynes:
48:15

Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
48:16

As a host, I like to share with my guests the assets because I just do. I think if someone spent the time to come to your podcast, you should share the assets. And and, also, it's a way to make sure that people are sharing the parts of the interview that I think were good and and all of that stuff. But if you I'm also not opposed to people doing their own clips and stuff like that. So if you happen to be a guest on a podcast that doesn't have, like, big post production and doesn't do clips and stuff, you can always get them yourself.

Rhona Pierce:
48:54

And that's the beauty of AI and where we are right now.

Orlando Haynes:
48:57

Yeah. Plus right. It's a it's a mutual beneficial exchange because the people who see the clip are like, absolutely wanna see more. I have to go to the host podcast. I I'm not going to the guest podcast because it's it's not on their platform.

Orlando Haynes:
49:13

It's on the host platform. So I need to go find out who Rona is, see her information, listen to 1 oh, no. Now I'm listening to 3. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Orlando Haynes:
49:22

I'm subscribing. Now oh, she got a YouTube. Oh oh oh, she coaches? Oh, yep. So right.

Orlando Haynes:
49:27

It's that trickle effect, that you get to see everything that person does. And like we said, the AI is incredible now. That one clip can have such an impact. You never know. That's why YouTube shorts were so big and, you know, IG, the clips were so big at at one point, and I think that's shifting in the market.

Orlando Haynes:
49:45

Is now more long form that people are tuning into more. And then, obviously, on the back end, we're we're chopping up. But it's a mutual beneficial exchange when it's a especially when it's a good episode, and you're like, yeah. Definitely gotta push this out. This is this is really good.

Rhona Pierce:
50:01

Yeah. And for us that are on LinkedIn, especially us in TA, I think most of us are on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is really putting their money behind video and clips. So right of the way I know. That's why

Orlando Haynes:
50:15

So I definitely gotta double down on that for sure.

Rhona Pierce:
50:19

So this has been an amazing conversation. I'm so sure that listeners are going to get so much value out of this conversation. How can listeners connect with

Orlando Haynes:
50:31

you? Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you again, Rona, for the opportunity. Glad we were able to, pod swap.

Orlando Haynes:
50:37

If you're a podcaster, you know the terminology. And so they can connect with me right on LinkedIn, Orlando Haines. Also, go to my website, career talks podcast.com, and then you'll see the links for all the podcasts, you know, Apple, Spotify, etcetera. If you want coaching, etcetera, you'll see all that information on the podcast. But I'm on LinkedIn every day, so that's probably the the primary space, but, you'll see my contact information as well on the career talks podcast.com website.

Rhona Pierce:
51:07

Perfect. And I'll link all of that in the show notes and also the link to Orlando's guide of the 10 steps to be a great podcast guest. It's an amazing guide, and I really encourage everyone to get it. Thank you so much. And there you have it, folks.

Rhona Pierce:
51:25

Visibility creates opportunity, but you don't have to spend hours creating content to be visible and have a strong personal brand. Thanks to Orlando for sharing his insights. Don't forget to grab his free guide on how to be a great podcast guest. The link is in the show notes. And if you want help creating content to expand on any of your guest appearances, let's chat.

Rhona Pierce:
51:51

I've just launched a new done for you service where you spend 1 hour with me and I create a month's worth of short form videos for you. It's that easy. Learn more at throwouttheplaybook.com/ video. The link is in the show notes. And don't forget to subscribe.

Rhona Pierce:
52:10

Next week, I'm sharing very simple ways you can repurpose content from podcast guest appearances. You don't wanna miss that episode. Thanks for listening and I'll chat with you next week.