#25: 33% of New Hires Quit: Fix It With Better Onboarding with Amy Davies

Rhona Pierce:
00:01

33% of new hires leave an organization within their 1st 6 months, which is absolutely crazy. Amy Davies is the founder of First 30, helping companies transform their employee experience through strategic onboarding. When people think about onboarding, I think most people think about the paperwork and the orientation. How do you define successful onboarding?

Amy Davies:
00:30

If you have set your employee up for success, you've given them the information they need to succeed, they have the tools they need to do their job, and they feel both physically and psychologically safe in your organization.

Rhona Pierce:
00:45

But there's a critical window that changes everything.

Amy Davies:
00:49

Once we've kind of imprinted, we build cognitively, we build what's called a belief system. And once that belief system is established, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to change.

Rhona Pierce:
01:02

How do poor onboarding practices affect a company's bottom line?

Amy Davies:
01:08

It costs at least, at a minimum, 30 to 50 percent of an employee salary to replace them.

Rhona Pierce:
01:14

Yet most companies continue to make the same devastating mistake.

Amy Davies:
01:19

We need to make the managers feel accountable for the success on their team. This is really important for the

Rhona Pierce:
01:25

health of your organization. We talk about being strategic recruiters, strategic partners to the business. You can't be on your own creating beautiful programs that no one cares about and that no one knows about. Tell the story

Amy Davies:
01:44

of how onboarding is gonna make a meaningful difference. Everyone loves a story, and if you got the data to back it up.

Rhona Pierce:
01:54

So thank you so much for being on the show with me today, Amy. I'm so excited for this topic. I am really excited to be here. I love the conversation we had

Amy Davies:
02:04

a few weeks ago. I've been following you now on LinkedIn, and you're just amazing. I love love the content that you produce, so I'm so glad we are connected now.

Rhona Pierce:
02:15

Thank you. Yes. Likewise. So of all the things and employee experience, what inspired you to focus on onboarding?

Amy Davies:
02:25

It might not be what you expect. When I started my business First 30, we actually work in the outplacement field. So we help employees who have been laid off. So we work with the companies, and we help them recover from the job loss and get back to work. And I decided when I started the business that I want to call it 1st 30 because I wanted it to be open to other programs.

Amy Davies:
02:46

I thought, you know, I know myself. There's gonna be more to come. This is chapter 1. And so sure enough, people thought we were an onboarding company because of the name. Right?

Amy Davies:
02:56

1st 30. And so we started getting lots of calls about employee onboarding, which I had some experience in. And then over the years, I've spoken with so many companies about their employee onboarding programs, and we sort of just organically moved into that space. And now that I'm here, wow. It is such an interesting area of the business with so much opportunity.

Amy Davies:
03:21

It seems like one of those funny things that companies just have so much trouble for you know, I'm sure they say for whatever reason, but I know the reasons why they're having these issues. And there's just like, there's so much opportunity.

Rhona Pierce:
03:34

That is so interesting. And you were totally right. I'd had never I would have never even thought that because the name is First 30. I thought you probably started with onboarding and ended up doing off board or out placement because I know that you do that.

Amy Davies:
03:50

Yeah. Well, I was thinking of our business even though all of our programs extend for more than 30 days. I was taking some 30 day you know, I was doing yoga with Adrian, and it they always have their 30 day program. And I'm like, it has such a nice ring to it. So that's how it all started.

Amy Davies:
04:06

And I'm I couldn't be happier with where it's gotten to.

Rhona Pierce:
04:09

Amazing. So when people think about onboarding, I think most people think about, like, the paperwork and the orientation.

Amy Davies:
04:17

Yeah. How do you define successful onboarding? Well, of course, these, you know, paperwork and all those things are part of a successful onboarding program. But I see it as if you have set your employee up for success, you've given them the information they need to succeed, they have the tools they need to do their job, and they feel both physically and psychologically safe in your organization, then you've done a really great job. And the other thing is get them excited.

Amy Davies:
04:49

You know? I think too often we think about, okay, we're ticking boxes and getting things done for the onboarding, but really what we wanna focus on is they should be excited to walk in the door on the 1st day, and that momentum should continue once they arrive.

Rhona Pierce:
05:07

Yes. And we really we talk a lot about, like, first impressions in hiring. I'm sure everyone has heard how important a first impression is. How does that psychology really apply to a new

Amy Davies:
05:20

hire's 1st few weeks? Well, as you know, we always say you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. But one of the big mistakes that we make as organizations is we don't ask the second question, which is why? Why do you do you not get a second chance to make a first impression? And the reason comes down to imprinting.

Amy Davies:
05:41

So if your listeners aren't familiar with it, it's a cognitive we're cognitively highly receptive when we engage with any new stimulus, whether it be a new restaurant, whether it be a new person, or whether it be a new workplace. So we really wanna think about that impression that we're making because once we've kind of imprinted, we built cognitively, we build what's called a belief system. And once that belief system is established, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to change. So those first few interactions are so much more meaningful than we realize. It can impact productivity.

Amy Davies:
06:18

It can impact a commitment to the business and faith and trust in the business. So we wanna think about you know? And companies, I think, tend to think that you're gonna get that second chance to make a first impression because the person maybe needs to be there, but it doesn't really work that way. And just because a company is doing one thing or another, doesn't mean that cognitively we're suddenly gonna change to accommodate our employer. That's just not possible.

Rhona Pierce:
06:46

Is there a, like, length or a period where that imprinting takes place? Is it first few times you interact with a recruiter? Is it first days with your manager?

Amy Davies:
06:57

It's so great that you bring that up because I'm often asked, do I see recruiting as part of the onboarding process? I think of once you've signed a job offer, that's when the actual preboarding and I would consider preboarding part of onboarding. That's when that process begins. But it's not to say that the whole candidate experience doesn't have an impact. So I do think that it's really important for recruiters to think about the fact that the person is imprinting as well and try to look for opportunities to make them feel, like we talked about, safe, to make them feel trust, to have sort of a consistent positive experience with them, and then hopefully that's continued once they move from the recruiter to the team.

Rhona Pierce:
07:44

And there's something that I always talk about retention. Anyone who's heard about, this podcast knows that I talk about retention and that my hot take is that recruiters are responsible for retention as well, not just getting people in the door. So how does effective onboarding impact employee retention and engagement?

Amy Davies:
08:07

Yeah. So we know that there's a lot of data around the improvements that a great onboarding program will lift engagement by 82% and but we also know that it improves retention. And one thing I will say is companies are very, very bad at tracking their retention rates. So if you're a recruiter listening to this or HR person listening to this, start tracking your retention rates, especially if you're just about to make some improvements to your employee onboarding program because it can be a huge success story for you. Right now, about 33% of new hires leave an organization within their first 6 months, which is absolutely crazy.

Amy Davies:
08:51

And we're gonna talk later about the cost benefit analysis of that, but it costs a lot of money when people leave. So it really does have a huge impact because think about it too. When new hires start, sometimes there's that sigh of relief, isn't there? Because it's like, someone to fill this gap in the organization. I'm finally gonna get the help I need and the expertise I need.

Amy Davies:
09:15

And then that person's out the door within a month or 2 months. It's not just about the hard cost. It's about what is the psychological impact to the employees that are constantly going through this.

Rhona Pierce:
09:27

Yes. And I even say it to the recruiters. Like, at some point, you feel like you're on a hamster wheel of recruiting for the same exact role over and over again. And it's like that's why I say it's so important, the role of the recruiter, because it's like, look. If you keep hiring for the same role, you're part of the problem too because you should know from what the people who've left have said their feedback.

Rhona Pierce:
09:54

And if you are in contact with them, you should know what you need to be looking for. Look. It's something as sometimes you know that the hiring manager that you're hiring for is a micromanager. Then be sure to hire someone and present candidates that are totally okay with micromanaging. Because, yes, ideally, should that exist?

Rhona Pierce:
10:14

No. But as a recruiter, can you just change that? Exist? I mean, is is it is it okay? Is it should it be the case?

Rhona Pierce:
10:23

Yeah. But you can't change that. Right? You're not the person's manager. You're not in management.

Rhona Pierce:
10:28

So as a recruiter, you adapt and adjust and you find the people that would fit in there. That's why I say Yeah. Retention is our thing.

Amy Davies:
10:35

Yes. Yeah. And it's you know, I love that you think that as a recruiter too, because too often it's the case where I think companies' experiences that the recruiter kinda considers their job over once the offer letter is signed. So recruiters like you who are much more progressive and the advice you're giving is is meaningful to organizations because we need the recruiter with the same priorities as the organization. Yeah.

Amy Davies:
11:01

It's really

Rhona Pierce:
11:02

the only way to succeed. And kind of along those lines, and you mentioned preboarding previously. So preboarding is really an important step before onboarding even begins. How can recruiters stay involved during that phase?

Amy Davies:
11:20

Yeah. So, I mean, they can definitely set the new hire up for success by maybe sending them a text or giving them a call the week before, making sure that they're ready to go if they have any questions. Another thing that I really like to do and I recommend to our clients that they do is send information precisely about what that person needs to know for their 1st day and make sure it applies to them. What is the location of the office? What is the transit situation?

Amy Davies:
11:50

What is the stop they need to get off at? Where's the parking? Where are they gonna get their coffee? I am really a slave to my coffee, and I don't wanna have any doubt that I'm gonna be able to get my coffee, especially on that first day. And lunch.

Amy Davies:
12:05

Right? Like, what if there's no lunch facilities and you can't buy lunch in the at the office and you need to know to bring your lunch in. You don't want someone who is caffeine deprived, tired, and then they're not eating during their 1st day. That is awful. So we were talking about, you know, making someone feel safe.

Amy Davies:
12:25

That's just another way. And I would get that message out sooner rather than later, even send it twice because they might miss it the first time. A lot's going on. And maybe the day before they've had all those days to get nervous, like, maybe send it a number of business days before they're getting started and make sure that message, I know I'm getting into the weeds a bit, is clearly labeled for them because you know how hard it is to wade through emails, especially when you have that nervous energy of starting a new job.

Rhona Pierce:
12:55

Yeah. And I I love that you've mentioned that. I I think back to when I've been actively recruiting. I know every Sunday because most of the companies, there's always, like, a first day. Right?

Amy Davies:
13:06

Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
13:07

A defined first day. Very few companies, you can start whatever day of the week. But larger companies where there's, like, orientation and everything planned, everyone, let's say, starts on a Monday. The Sunday before, I was always texting all of my candidates and be like, hey. So excited.

Rhona Pierce:
13:23

If it's remote, it's like, log in at this time because this is this. And, obviously, I talk to the hiring manager and Yeah. And tell them about this. I'm not telling someone to log in at 10 and their manager's expecting them at 8 or anything like that. But I tell them the things that no one thinks about telling them, like, hey.

Rhona Pierce:
13:40

I love to you're gonna be at the office for training. I don't live there, but I love the coffee shop right next door.

Amy Davies:
13:46

So nice. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
13:48

That type of thing. Like, really, people aren't gonna ask this, but they it's so important to know, and it just takes off the stress of the first day. It's like Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Amy Davies:
13:58

And then they feel at home in the neighborhood already. You're really trying to wanting to make them feel at home. I just wanted to add one thing to what I was saying because I think it's really important. And this might fall to the recruiter too because if they're talking to the new hire, maybe things aren't going right. Maybe they're not getting the technology.

Amy Davies:
14:14

That's a big one. Not getting someone's laptop to them or even PPE, and they they can't actually do their job, and they're sort of mulling around. So one thing we really wanna be careful of is we don't wanna normalize that for the employee. It may be a blip or it might be a bigger problem that the organization has to address. But if I'm a new hire, I shouldn't be hearing from anyone, oh, that's just the sort of thing that happens around here.

Amy Davies:
14:40

Get used to it. Right? And that often will happen with new hires where people make those comments, and the whole trust is starting to be broken down from that point.

Rhona Pierce:
14:51

Yeah. That that shouldn't be a thing. And, yeah, as a recruiter, I always make sure I think it's I have a a unique background of I've done agency and I've done marketplace, so I've done external before moving into internal. So I always have that, like, okay. I wanna make sure that they get there to my client the first day.

Rhona Pierce:
15:10

Well, I took that when I went internal too. I wanna make sure that IT I'm the person who's like, do they have their computer already? Oh, Rhona. You don't have to worry about that. Absolutely.

Rhona Pierce:
15:20

I have to worry. I wanna make sure. And there have been places where for whatever reason, the computer isn't ready. It did get there. We tell the person you don't have to log in this 1st day.

Rhona Pierce:
15:31

You're still getting paid. Yeah. This is on us. Yeah. Your first day starts when we consider that you are ready to start, when we've set you up to success.

Rhona Pierce:
15:41

Part of that is having the tools that you need to start.

Amy Davies:
15:46

And, you know, Rona, that's another great point. And one of the things I recommend to employers is I know it's we it feels weird, but let your new hire start late on their 1st day, and then let them leave early because their manager needs to be fresh too. So their manager can get in, check their email, get their coffee. And you're seeing a theme here, I'm sure. And the person's probably tired.

Amy Davies:
16:10

It's probably a place they haven't gone all you know, many times before. So you just it makes it so much more smooth when you let them start late and leave early on their 1st day.

Rhona Pierce:
16:21

And I love the leave early part because how many times have you not been on your 1st day and it's like, you're there counting the minutes till 5. Look. Everyone's done training you. Cause they're like finishing their day. There's nothing that you have to do.

Rhona Pierce:
16:35

And you're just there, like playing this game of like, I'm going to leave at 5:0:1 so that I'm not that person. Come on. Just, just leave

Amy Davies:
16:44

people from that. Yeah. And say it like, please get out of here. We know this is you know, we always lead let our new hires leave. We always ask our new hires to leave early on their 1st day.

Amy Davies:
16:55

So, yeah, you have that permission structure all set up, and it doesn't seem weird, and it doesn't seem like they're not committed. But my goodness, there's nothing worse than sitting around in your first day with nothing to do and really trying to look busy. It's embarrassing and uncomfortable.

Rhona Pierce:
17:10

Yeah. It's just so awkward and so weird. Yeah. So what are some of the common challenges that you see organizations face when they're implementing onboarding programs, and how can they address these?

Amy Davies:
17:25

Well, there's a number of issues. I mean, one of them is getting buy in from the organization, and that can mean many things. I think that the greatest onboarding programs, are there any refresh or revamp to an onboarding program has a senior sponsor in the organization, so someone who will advocate for it, someone who will get the budget necessary, and allow for there to be dedicated resources. In order to make that happen for the HR team or whoever kind of is seen to own onboarding, the best thing you can do, and we're gonna talk about it shortly, is to make sure that you have the data and the numbers. Like, how much is new hire turnover costing our business every year, and what can we do to improve that?

Amy Davies:
18:08

Or are we not getting our new hires up to productivity as quickly as we think we should be and that we're losing opportunities because of that? So that is one. And then the other is to make sure that if you are refreshing or revamping your onboarding program, you wanna have a cross functional team of managers who have hired have had new hires come in in the last couple years to participate in the process because we can set up the best employee onboarding program, and then no one utilizes it because we haven't got that buy in. So as you know, people who are involved in the process of change and who have helped create the program are so much more likely to advocate for it and to use it. So make sure that you have that cross functional team, and you find out what's working for them.

Amy Davies:
18:59

Because the other thing is we don't wanna start fixing things that aren't broken. Right? But that is a big barrier to getting onboarding right. Because I often hear from organizations, some managers are great at this, some not so much. Well, those managers then need to be coached.

Amy Davies:
19:14

Right? So Yeah. Then there's an opportunity. The other thing I heard just the other day is training for managers about how to onboard new hires is optional. Can't be optional.

Amy Davies:
19:25

Everybody needs to know. Anyone who's hiring needs to know how to onboard how the organization is set up to onboard this person, and they there is a process they need to follow for sure.

Rhona Pierce:
19:38

That's so interesting. How can that be optional?

Amy Davies:
19:42

Yeah. I don't understand it myself, but I think because people are so busy in organizations, that's where I think the senior sponsorship comes in. That's where the cross functional teams that's we need to make managers feel accountable for the success on their team. It's not to say it's all up to them at all. And just because someone leaves doesn't mean their manager has done something wrong, but there does need to be a certain accountability.

Amy Davies:
20:06

This is really important for the health of your organization.

Rhona Pierce:
20:10

I love how you mentioned the the sponsor and the senior sponsor. And on this podcast, we talk about being strategic recruiters, strategic partners to the business. You can't be on your own creating beautiful programs that no one cares about and that no one knows about because you're gonna continue to be saying to your HR and TA peers, I just want a seat at the table. Well, to get a seat at the table, you have to speak people's language and you have to bring them in on the things that you do. Onboarding is a beautiful and perfect way to start those cross functional things because it's just the nature of it.

Rhona Pierce:
20:52

There's no way this is only an HR thing. And it's an exciting part of

Amy Davies:
20:57

the business too. Right? Every people do get excited about improving onboarding programs. They get excited about participating in that. You could set up buddy programs where, you know, HR might be the one to start setting them up, but it's a great opportunity to let your more junior employees shine because they can play a large role in that.

Amy Davies:
21:18

So there's so many exciting, fun things that you can do with onboarding that have you know, I talk in in a lot of the sessions that I do with HR leaders. It's like this is feel good. Right? Like, I talk a lot about creating a praise culture. Creating a praise culture, it's a feel good thing, but it actually has a business benefit.

Amy Davies:
21:38

And the numbers back that up. So, yes, it's feel good, but it's also gonna help your business be more profitable. Yes. A 100%. And like you said, the buddy program, I mean, it also helps with with your employee engagement.

Amy Davies:
21:51

Okay. So now you've

Rhona Pierce:
21:52

been working there. Everyone wants to get promoted. Everyone can't get promoted. Yeah. Everyone needs to work up to being promoted.

Rhona Pierce:
22:01

So when you take someone who's on that track and give them an additional responsibility, of course, with their buying. It feels so good that you're helping the company and you're helping welcome the new people on your team. I mean, the I I've never really seen anywhere where I've implemented a buddy program where the buying from the employees working as buddies isn't, like, something that everyone wants to do. It's like, we usually get, like, too many people wanting to do it.

Amy Davies:
22:31

People who wanna do it. Yes. I've seen that as well, and it's exciting to see. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
22:37

Yeah. So everyone knows I love content. I'm a content creator, and content doesn't only mean the external content that you post online. I love to tell that to people. When I say content, it's not only that.

Rhona Pierce:
22:53

So in respect to onboarding, lots of companies just hand you a booklet, either a virtual one or a real one, and there's information overload when it comes to onboarding. How do you approach breaking this content down into information into pieces that is digestible for the new hire?

Amy Davies:
23:14

I would say that a lot of companies have HRIS, and their HRIS has not prioritized onboarding. So this can be difficult to do with that, except the very, very highest end ones. So you might have to think about the how this happens, but, certainly, sending out information in bite sized chunks is a really good idea. So I always say that onboarding should not be an avalanche of information. It should be a babbling brook because memories are fragile at the best of times.

Amy Davies:
23:46

But when you have that, you know, nervous energy maybe or your you have information overload, your memory is like a sieve, and maybe the organization feels like they're taking a box by giving it all to you, but you're not remembering any of it anyway. We have to think about how different learning styles might apply here as well. Some people really respond well to the in person content being delivered, and then other people prefer to review things and go over them themselves, maybe a combination of those 2. But, again, it can't be all at once. So I think that email sequencing tools are really good for this.

Amy Davies:
24:23

Some systems have them. Some organizations won't. There's great programs that marketers use. You might wanna talk to your marketing team. You could probably talk to us if you don't know what they are.

Amy Davies:
24:35

But getting it programmed so that new hires every few days receive or even every day for the 1st week or 2 receive information, that's what we do with our program and our platform is we space it out. So you're each day you're getting something and the emails are clearly labeled, and then there's a place that might look and feel a little bit different than your SharePoint or your intranet sites. Because what happens is if everything looks exactly the same, people are gonna forget what onboarding versus everything else is. So we have a platform that we use with clients, and some of them actually leave it branded first 30 so that their employees know what to look for and what is onboarding content versus everything else in the organization. That's amazing.

Amy Davies:
25:24

And I love the concept of the drip campaign

Rhona Pierce:
25:27

Yes. For onboarding. And and this is also an opportunity for you to leverage the again, these cross functional relationships. This is where you talk to marketing about tools. Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
25:38

If you have an internal comms team, they can help you with the drip campaigning and all of that. For sure, they can. Yeah. And your your learning and development team, they can help you create this program. So a lot of times with onboarding, it just falls on HR, and we should be able to know and leverage the resources that we have.

Rhona Pierce:
25:59

Look. You're good at hiring. You're good at compliance if you're in HR. You're good at whatever piece you are. You're not necessarily a marketer, an internal communicator, or, like, someone who creates learning and development programs.

Rhona Pierce:
26:12

If you have these people in your organization, bring them in to help shape this program so that it's successful. Yeah. And can we talk for a minute about the

Amy Davies:
26:22

look and feel of the resources that you're getting? Because you and I are both probably mark very marketing minded as well as in addition to everything else, and that's a learned skill. Right? So just because you're doing something else and you don't have those skills today, doesn't mean you can't learn them. We both learn them, and they're actually fun to learn.

Amy Davies:
26:40

But what I see with onboarding materials is it's like this hodgepodge of all of these different resources from different departments with different looks and feels and fonts and logos. And some of them are 20 years old, and some of them were produced last year. And when we think of content, like we're talking cognitively how we respond to new stimulus, consistency breeds trust. So consider that. Consistency breeds trust.

Amy Davies:
27:09

And we want those things to all look cohesive because familiarity also inspires trust. So that's more important than people realize, and it can make a bigger difference. It's just not something that companies seem to think matters all that much. They care about their external brand. But if you look at any of the top brands in the world, as soon as you look at the page or the the online ad or you walk in their store, you know you're there.

Amy Davies:
27:41

Just by the colors and the shapes that you are seeing, you've got that, and that's what you want with your onboarding material as well.

Rhona Pierce:
27:48

You wanna hear a funny story? Yes. Once got in trouble for bothering the marketing team because when I started at a company to lead their TA team, I asked them for their brand kit. Okay. They're like, that's for no.

Rhona Pierce:
28:05

You don't

Amy Davies:
28:06

don't worry about that.

Rhona Pierce:
28:07

That's for external. That's for marketing. Why are you bothering them? They're they're busy. I'm like, wait.

Rhona Pierce:
28:12

So your internal stuff doesn't follow what your brand kit is, and I'm not bothering someone. Just send it to me. I know you have it. But, yeah, that that's how people don't understand that it's one brand. Your employer brand, your internal brand with your employees, your Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
28:29

It's one brand. And the more you make it look the same yeah. And the more you make it look the same, like you said, the more people identify with it.

Amy Davies:
28:39

Yeah. And I do wanna add that I think organizations should have people who are as excited and committed as you are about this. And we wanna make sure there is an excitement factor that does add something and, well, you have all the expertise, but there is that secret something that great contributors have. And it might not be that this this individual isn't excited about other things to do with their work, but when you're thinking of refreshing and revamping an onboarding program, find people to lead these projects who are actually excited about them, not someone who's gonna consider it just an add on and and is not something they wanna do. So instead of telling people kinda who's doing it, maybe find the people who are really interested in this and get help, you know, help them figure out a way to be the ones to lead that project.

Amy Davies:
29:32

Great. Great point. Any other, like, big mistakes that you see companies make with their onboarding materials? Well, I think that the other thing, and I kind of brought it up already, is that they'll send out one email with a catchall where everything's in that one. And so if and they could name it, like, welcome to, you know, 1st 30 or welcome to whatever business.

Amy Davies:
29:57

And then they don't that that's the only time that the employees got an email, especially if there's calls to action in those messages. That is so easily missed. Again, we're dealing with people that have that nervous energy. They're trying to make a good impression, and there's nothing more embarrassing than not, you know, having that available to you and then having to go ask someone. So the other mistake I think that companies make is if you have a benefits program, if you have a payroll system, there's probably resources that are guided.

Amy Davies:
30:31

You know? They're like task based videos. Here's how you do this. Here's how you do this. Share them with your employees so often.

Amy Davies:
30:39

I mean, the company that's providing you those benefits probably has that all set up. It's probably available on YouTube. Just link to those training those little training modules because then when your employee, after 2 or 3 months, they have to fill out their first benefit, you know, form. They don't have to go to their manager and say, oh, here's my here's my prescription. How do I do this?

Amy Davies:
31:06

That's so embarrassing.

Rhona Pierce:
31:07

It doesn't make anyone feel good. So you wanna definitely think about how do you enable them to have easy access to that information. And timely. Timing information is the most important because, yes, you start and they you they give you all this information in your 1st days, but open enrollment doesn't necessarily fall during your 1st days.

Amy Davies:
31:29

Yes.

Rhona Pierce:
31:29

So why not everyone who's been onboarded that year before open enrollment a week or two before, send them a refresher email from that drip campaign that you said. Hey. Open enrollment is coming up. This is your first time doing it at this company. Here's a refresher of how it's done.

Rhona Pierce:
31:47

Here's where you log in. You'll get more information from HR as you go. But that way, people aren't like, wait. What is this? Asking HR, asking the managers.

Rhona Pierce:
31:56

You're having a benefits conversation, and some people are asking, wait. What's the portal that I log into? Yeah.

Amy Davies:
32:03

We're like Absolutely. Catch them up to where everyone else is. And there's really great ways. Like, First 30 does this. So full disclosure, I can't be objective about this because we do have a platform that does this.

Amy Davies:
32:16

But you can create a really nice space for your new hires to go to access all of this information that's organized. So often I see this sort of data or this resource dump on a page that's not clearly labeled, that's not color coded, and they expect people to be able to so easily navigate it. We're used to using technology that is user friendly. You know, if you shop on Amazon, if you use Netflix, it should be that easy for them. So, you know, you can always talk to me, of course, but maybe there's other technologies out there you can use that are are great or a learning management system.

Amy Davies:
32:56

But it needs to be housed in a way that it makes it easy for employees to find things even months after they started their job.

Rhona Pierce:
33:04

100 100000000%. And I come from a background of software engineering and project management. One of my favorite books of all time is called Don't Make Me Think. It's a very, very easy read, and it's not technical at all. It's really helped me in every program, everything that I've done, even after leaving the technical world because that's how we think.

Rhona Pierce:
33:31

The the whole book is about use web usability. It's probably way dated because I haven't done this or maybe they have a new version. But Mhmm. Don't make people think. That's the whole concept.

Rhona Pierce:
33:42

Make it so clear. You go to Amazon, you know exactly where to do things even if you've never been on Amazon before. That's how your internal communication or everything that you do for your employees should be. They shouldn't need training to figure out where your things are. Well and that's the hard part.

Rhona Pierce:
34:01

Right? Because a

Amy Davies:
34:02

lot of these the HRIS or these other platforms, they do certain things really, really well, and a company doesn't wanna have to keep paying for all this new technology. The problem is the systems you have don't do what we've described well. You know? And that's just the reality of it. So it's hard because companies say they'll say they have an onboarding module, but that's not what it does, and that's not what it was built for.

Amy Davies:
34:27

So just start looking for technology that's built for what you're needing to solve, and you're gonna have a much your employees are gonna have a much better experience.

Rhona Pierce:
34:36

Yes. So how do poor onboarding practices affect a company's bottom line?

Amy Davies:
34:44

Yes. So I like to think of it as a calculation because we talked earlier about we know that we lose a lot of new hires if we don't have a great onboarding program. It costs at least, at a minimum, it costs 30 to 50% of an employee salary to replace them as a recruiter. You know that stat so well. But it can be up to 200% because of the lost working hours, because of the impact on other employees when these things happen.

Amy Davies:
35:11

So what we wanna do is we wanna track the amount of people that we're losing within the first, like, I would say even 18 months. That might be able to be related back to your onboarding. Take that number. Take the so you take an average of what the salary would be. So say you have you know, you hire 40 people a year.

Amy Davies:
35:32

You're losing 13. You've I've got all the calculations here, actually. I figured this out. So say you average the salary of 60 k and you times that by 13 and divide it by 2. Maybe we should put this calculation in the show notes.

Amy Davies:
35:48

That's $390,000. Okay? And that's just 13 employees. You know? I use the unlucky number 13 so people would remember it.

Amy Davies:
35:58

Share that calculation with your leadership and help them understand that, you know, for us, a significantly smaller amount of money, you could improve your onboarding program. And the data shows that that improves productivity by 70%, new hire retention by 82%. So there's all these fun ways to explain in ways that a CFO would really gravitate towards how making the small investment and this relatively small amount of time spent will truly improve the bottom line.

Rhona Pierce:
36:36

We are friends of the CFO here on this podcast, and I like to ask all of my guests. Anytime we talk about new things because we're throwing out the playbook. Right? We're doing things differently. What's the business case for onboarding and pre onboarding?

Rhona Pierce:
36:51

How do I tell my CFO, let's be besties. I need money.

Amy Davies:
36:56

Yeah. So that is a great place to start, and then, obviously, you wanna understand what the investment will be to make things these things happen and whether you need external services like a First 30 or like a great HR consultant or whatever it is you need to actually make it happen. Because what I find with a lot of organizations, unless they act and I'm this is gonna sound like it's self promoting, but I I totally don't mean it that way because I've seen it happen so many times before. It gets deprioritized when it's someone internal running it, unfortunately. So that's where an external consultant can really help move the needle a lot more quickly.

Amy Davies:
37:38

You need an an organization that has great project management skills so they can help keep everyone on task. So that is you know, look at the numbers, show them the cost of the business, show them the potential benefit, especially if you're having a new hire retention problem. It can go a long way. And then explain to them what, you know, talk to them about imprinting. What is the cognitive response that we have?

Amy Davies:
38:03

Learn a little more about it. You know, put up some fun slides. Tell the story of how onboarding is gonna make a meaningful difference. Everyone loves a story, and if you got the data to back it up, that is gonna be so helpful. And then maybe you can show them like, hey.

Amy Davies:
38:20

We could we could go take a take an organization you think is doing it really well. We could go from this and then show them what the outcome could look like. We could go from this to this. I always think that is a really great and powerful way to, you know, make a case for investing in onboarding.

Rhona Pierce:
38:38

Love it. And I wouldn't be me if I don't talk about my video, you know, how much I love video. Yes. Is there an opportunity to use video to enhance an onboarding experience for new hires?

Amy Davies:
38:53

Yes. So with a platform like ours, we actually have the capability to add a video to every single date of the program. I love that, but very few organizations will commit to having a, every day, there's like a 1 or 2 minute video of a you know, in the program that the person is taking. But if you don't have you know, if your organization is not gonna sign up for that, which I totally understand, Certainly in preboarding, you can send them a message from the leadership team. You could send them a message from different people on the team.

Amy Davies:
39:25

You probably have videos that you share externally about your vision, mission, values, your brand for your customers or your clients. Share those videos as well. So you might not have to do a ton of work. And, hey, here's the other thing. You and I both know that some of the greatest videos can be filmed just on our iPhone.

Amy Davies:
39:45

Right?

Rhona Pierce:
39:45

Yes.

Amy Davies:
39:46

And it and sometimes that authenticity of just a CEO or CFO on an iPhone saying you don't have to do it personalized. Just say, hey. I'm so glad you've joined the business. We're looking forward to having you start. Here's a few things you might wanna know about the organization.

Amy Davies:
40:01

And it it can feel very it's sincere. Right? So you're you don't have to spend a fortune at this anymore. We have so many simple resources that are available to us that are are in our hands every day, probably pretty much attached to us. Yes.

Amy Davies:
40:18

So there is no excuse, and they've got great cameras on them.

Rhona Pierce:
40:22

Yeah. And, also, never assume that your new hire has seen all of your employer branding materials. Absolutely. Yes. That's absolutely right.

Rhona Pierce:
40:34

Because even if you sent them, even if it's plastered all over your careers page, look, there's so many people who've never seen it or they don't remember it. You have to see things many times to actually remember. So, look, if they've seen it already, they're just gonna skip it. It's fine.

Amy Davies:
40:49

No one's going to die. Leverage your materials. But exactly. There's nothing wrong with the reminder. We just talked about the fact that memories are fragile.

Rhona Pierce:
40:58

So anything about onboarding that I didn't ask that you think is important for listeners to know?

Amy Davies:
41:05

Well, the last thing I would say about onboarding is the same as planting a tree. Right? When is the best time to plant a tree? It's 20 years ago or today? Same with your onboarding program.

Amy Davies:
41:16

If you haven't invested in it, it was probably a good idea to do it 5, 10, 20 years ago. But today, it's also a really good day to invest in your onboarding. But, actually, I did have a question for you. You talked about helping new candidates succeed, and I was just wondering because I I would like to also take this back to my clients as well is, you know, what are some of the things as a recruiter, you mentioned some of them, but you do to help your new hire succeed, whether it's within the, you know, pre boarding, within the 1st week, month, year, whatever it is.

Rhona Pierce:
41:51

I like to say I love to stay in touch with my new hires. Our relationship doesn't end once you are hired for many reasons. Right? You've already formed that bond. They trust you.

Rhona Pierce:
42:06

So I check-in with people, and and I make anyone on my team check-in with their new hires. 30, 60, 90 days. And the 1st week, we check-in every day. So many tie yes. So many times, we've saved someone from leaving for a misunderstanding.

Rhona Pierce:
42:26

Right? We talk a lot about some candidates feel they were catfished by, oh, the recruiter told me this, this, and then I start the 1st day and this happens. Or I was told this during hiring, and this is now happening. As a recruiter, you can get in front of those things and be like, hey, hiring manager. There's where's the breakdown?

Rhona Pierce:
42:47

What's happening? And Yeah. We've been able to save it because it's, most of the time, just a misunderstanding. Yeah. If you leave that unchecked, they have no one to talk to because they're just starting a relationship with their hiring manager, right, with their manager and their team.

Rhona Pierce:
43:02

They're not necessarily gonna complain. They don't wanna be seen as that. What they're going to do is keep looking for a job. They were just on the job market. So if you get ahead of that and you've truly formed a relationship with them, people are always so amazed.

Rhona Pierce:
43:18

It's like, oh, thank you so much, Rona, for checking in on me. I've never been to this. Leave me alone. So Right. That's one.

Rhona Pierce:
43:27

Like, start that relationship. People always get and they give you good feedback that you know for the future as well. And I I talked about the texting people. When I used to work in person, I would always go to lunch with the new hire at some point during their 1st 2 weeks.

Amy Davies:
43:45

Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. That's really good. Because you're like the first line of defense.

Amy Davies:
43:51

Right? And the other thing, you know, that you're making me think of is that we go through a learning curve whenever we're learning new technology and also when we're starting a new business. And if you don't know a lot about the learning curve, I'm sure it's something you can look up. It's it's fairly well known. But we go through these very uncomfortable phases of a learning curve where we're conscious that well, I wanna say our perceived incompetence.

Amy Davies:
44:15

Right? We're conscious consciously incompetent, And that can be an awful feeling for a new hire. So I love that you're checking in along the way because you actually and you're a pretty empathic person. I think you'd probably be able to pick up on pretty quickly if they're struggling. Even if they're getting all the support they need, it doesn't mean they're not struggling.

Amy Davies:
44:36

And a lot of us are conditioned to smile and nod even if we're having a really tough time and admitting, hey. I actually need help here. So I love that you do that because there's just so many opportunities to improve the candidate's outcome, but also improve the outcome for the organization.

Rhona Pierce:
44:53

And and the reason why I think and I always tell any team and I encourage and require any recruiter on my team to do this, it's because we're natural relationship builders. It's what we do. That's not necessarily the personality of other people on HR team Mhmm. Or the team where the person works. You are the relationship builder.

Rhona Pierce:
45:15

Go ahead and continue doing that and let leverage that information. That's also how you become a true partner to the business because you're bringing back information that is helpful and helps set the person up for success.

Amy Davies:
45:29

It's so funny because whenever I go to HR events, I always could tell who the recruiters and the talent acquisition folks are. You can always tell. It almost feels like you're at a sales conference when you're talking to these people, which I absolutely love. But this is a great asset that an organization has either as a partner or internally. So utilize that asset.

Rhona Pierce:
45:52

It's funny. I I was recently at a conference at breakfast and Yeah. One of the the ladies hosted a dinner at the zoo. So this was a bunch of recruiters in a room with 2 of the zookeepers giving us a presentation about animals and and tigers and telling us everything about it. They had the they said any questions at the end.

Rhona Pierce:
46:15

And I don't think these 2 guys were ready for the amount of questions and the like, they were great questions. They were happy. They told me, we we even know how you get a job as a zookeeper. Oh my gosh. Yes.

Rhona Pierce:
46:29

We asked of everything. That's just who we are, and I I just kept laughing. I'm like, they were not ready for being in a room full of recruiters. We know all about the animals. We know all about their job.

Rhona Pierce:
46:40

We know if they like their job, by the way. They told us all of this. Yeah. That's just a

Amy Davies:
46:45

You get a lot out of people. Yeah. Then that's, again, that's another thing. Like, people will tell you things that they might not tell their manager. Right?

Amy Davies:
46:54

And it's not that you're gonna break their confidence, but there's certainly ways or their confidentiality, but there are ways that you can give the a little indication to the organization that maybe there's a little intervention needed.

Rhona Pierce:
47:07

Yes. And, also, it's a great way to get feedback on your process. Right? At day 90, when I do that 90 day check-in, I ask kind of like, I don't ask this way, but it's like, look. Now we're besties.

Rhona Pierce:
47:20

Now you trust me. I didn't leave you hanging dry. Right. What can I change about the recruiting process? Go back and tell me what did you like and what did you not like?

Rhona Pierce:
47:30

Yes. They've already have the spilled out the NPS survey. They already have that information. But now 90 days in, what could I have done as a recruiter to set you up for success for this role and other people coming along? Some of the best feedback I've got has been at that 90 day when I asked that question.

Amy Davies:
47:49

Yeah. And, you know, it is really important to survey your employees as like, not to do your engagement survey, but actually a new hire survey. And if you ever do plan on refreshing or revamping your onboarding program, make sure that you do the research in advance and you run the same survey that you're gonna run-in 3, 6 months, a year with your new hires because guess what? You can benchmark your success, which means you have a starting data point, and you're gonna be investing in your onboarding program. So you we like to make HR leaders look like rock stars in their organization.

Amy Davies:
48:24

So we always say when you're gonna start a new program, do the research early, and then you can go back to that same data and say, hey. We improved satisfaction with onboarding by x amount a year later. And that's a very powerful way to justify the work and investment. And, again, your CFO is gonna love that.

Rhona Pierce:
48:46

Yes. So this has been an amazing conversation. I'm sure everyone, all the listeners are gonna get a

Amy Davies:
48:52

lot of value out of it. How can listeners connect with you? Yeah. Well, the best place to go is LinkedIn. I feel like I live there part time.

Amy Davies:
49:00

So so by all means, LinkedIn is a great place to start. And then, of course, you can visit our website at, www.first 30, the number 30, ready.com. But, yeah, those are the best ways, and there's there's all kinds of ways you can find me on the website as well. Perfect.

Rhona Pierce:
49:19

And I'll include all of those links in the show notes. Thank you again. This was a great conversation. I'm so excited.

Amy Davies:
49:26

Well, thank you so much for having me. I learned a lot too. You know, it's always great to talk to people like you who are as excited as I am about employee onboarding and making sure that both the employee and the company are they're both successful in this process. 1 is not more important than the other. So seeing someone else who's an employee advocate is is really great.

Rhona Pierce:
49:49

If you want more actionable advice, like the advice shared in this episode, I write a weekly newsletter for TA professionals who want to take a more strategic approach to recruiting. You can sign up at throwouttheplaybook.com/newsletter. That's throwouttheplaybook.com/newsletter. The link is in the show notes.