#13: Don't get Ghosted: Email Campaigns That Candidates Can't Ignore - with Vanessa Raath

Vanessa Raath:
00:01

Don't just go and reach out to a candidate after looking at their LinkedIn profile because you don't get all of the information that you wanna actually use in your reach out campaign from LinkedIn.

Rhona Pierce:
00:12

That's Vanessa Raath, and she's about to challenge everything you thought you knew about female outreach to candidates. In this episode, she shares her approach to crafting email campaigns that actually resonate with candidates. From uncovering hidden candidate information to thinking like a marketer, Vanessa shares the strategies that have transformed her sourcing game. You'll learn how to personalize your emails beyond just using a candidate's name.

Vanessa Raath:
00:40

I mean, I find that I have to give a good Google search for someone to find out things like, oh, wait, hold on. They also run this community. Or maybe they wrote this book or they were a guest on this blog or they were a guest on someone's podcast that you could have listened to.

Rhona Pierce:
00:55

What email metrics you should be paying attention to.

Vanessa Raath:
00:58

Definitely open rates versus response rates because then you know that your message is landing.

Rhona Pierce:
01:03

How to create engaging email content.

Vanessa Raath:
01:06

So first of all, you know, the big one, and also I was reading in this article today, it's your subject lines. You've gotta make sure that you got your number of characters right.

Rhona Pierce:
01:14

Vanessa even reveals a counterintuitive email strategy that might surprise you.

Vanessa Raath:
01:19

You have to, as a recruiter, tell that candidate that this is the last email that you are sending them.

Rhona Pierce:
01:25

That's right. Vanessa explains why your last email in a campaign should actually be a breakup email, whether you're struggling with low response rates or looking to build a stronger pipeline. This episode is packed with actionable advice you can start implementing today. Let's dive in to my conversation with Vanessa. So I always like to start by asking people, tell me a bit about their background and how they landed in talent acquisition.

Rhona Pierce:
01:55

But with you specifically, I wanna know how you ended up specializing in talent sourcing.

Vanessa Raath:
02:00

Excellent question. I always ask this one myself, to be honest, because, like, no one went to university to study to be a recruiter. Right? There's a everyone kind of fell into it or as I heard recently on a podcast, they, like, face planted into recruitment. So I basically fell into recruitment because I like to eat and I was broke.

Vanessa Raath:
02:18

I had no money. I'd basically been traveling around the world. A qualified teacher. I'd spent some time in London, had left London, had worked as a scuba diving instructor in Southeast Asia, and East Africa. And literally one morning kind of woke up and I was like, well, I thought it was time to go home now.

Vanessa Raath:
02:35

And that was about 12 years of traveling and living outside the country. And I returned home with not a cent to my name. So I literally went for an interview at a recruitment agency trying to get into adult education because I thought, you know, I could still be a teacher, but it doesn't always pay that well here in South Africa, and I quite enjoyed working with adults. So, yeah, I went for an interview, and they offered me the job. And I actually said, no.

Vanessa Raath:
02:59

Thanks. I'm alright. I'll I'll hang out and wait. And a week later, I realized that no one else was really, like, knocking down my door for me to do anything for them. And I had to live with my parents again, and I was in my thirties, and I really needed some cash.

Vanessa Raath:
03:11

So, yeah, I kind of went for it. And, the rest is history. 2 years in agency, then the 10 years internal, and now I've been running my own business for just over 5 years. So, I haven't worked all over the place, haven't had many different roles, but I've experienced kind of like the length and breadth of what recruitment can offer you, which has been great. Yeah.

Vanessa Raath:
03:31

And I'm sure sourcing piece. Let me explain the talent sourcing piece as well before I forget. Rona, to be honest with you, that was out of pure desperation because here I was internal. I was at the same company for 10 years. It was a tech company, and I realized I wasn't finding these people on LinkedIn and local job boards.

Vanessa Raath:
03:49

So I had to start thinking differently. And And it was really weird because being stuck in South Africa, talent sourcing wasn't a thing. And, I mean, I'm going back 10 years now. It really and truly wasn't a thing. And I actually taught myself how to source talent on the likes of GitHub and Stack Overflow and how to write Boolean and how to x-ray all from YouTube.

Vanessa Raath:
04:07

Because, you know, back then, there wasn't much happening. I was an avid follower of all the SourceCon conferences. So whenever there was a conference happening, I mean, it was hugely expensive for me to try and get over there from South Africa to the US side. I'd sit on that hashtag and I'd learn as much as possible, even to the point to where people would say, hey, Vanessa, you're very trippy. You know, are you at the conference?

Vanessa Raath:
04:29

Can we meet up for, like, a drink for the next break or see you for a coffee or then I then had to explain, actually, no, I'm sitting on the other side of the world. So, yeah, that was a lot of how I learned was listening to these conferences, watching YouTube, and doing all of those, interesting things. So, yeah, it was a journey, but it was great. I absolutely love it.

Rhona Pierce:
04:49

Amazing. Amazing. So we're in 2024. Everyone talks about sourcing on social media and just all of these modern things. Why do you think email campaigns are still a relevant and powerful way to source talent?

Vanessa Raath:
05:07

So it's really interesting because this is actually one of the courses that I train people on because there's so many different aspects to recruitment. And then you can even say there's so many different aspects to talent sourcing. So, when it comes to my talent sourcing philosophy, I literally have 3 pillars, and these are the 3 pillars you have to get right. It doesn't matter what your job title is. If you're involved in HR, recruitment, or talent sourcing, or executive search, or whatever it is, is this is what you have to get right.

Vanessa Raath:
05:32

So let me share them with you, and then we can talk about why the the email campaigns are important. So first thing is your brand. You know, how did you find me? You're sitting in the states at the moment. I'm sitting in South Africa.

Vanessa Raath:
05:43

How did you find me to be a guest on your podcast? It's my brand. Right? So the first thing is having a strong digital footprint, great online brand. Those kind of things are important.

Vanessa Raath:
05:53

2nd is where are you looking? So let's not go and look where every other recruiter in the world is looking, and I refer to LinkedIn and job boards. You know, let's go and think out of the box a little bit. And then the third thing is your outreach. You know, what are you saying to people?

Vanessa Raath:
06:06

I mean, please tell me you're not using templates of messages, same message to people, 0 personalization, all of those things. And for me, if you can crack those three things, you are going to be you're sorted. You know, that's exactly what you're looking for. So to answer your question around, you know, are email campaigns, you know, successful? Why are they successful?

Vanessa Raath:
06:26

It's because I think that we have to have a multi pronged approach these days to recruiting. You know, it's it's about finding the people. I mean, the next step is actually finding contact details, phone numbers, or email addresses. And, I mean, that's a skill in itself. And then sending the message and realizing that we've got to think like marketers.

Vanessa Raath:
06:45

It's a campaign here. It's not a once off email where a lot of people make the mistake of that first email is the whole tldr because it is too long. And then your second and third, what have you actually got to say? But, oh, you know, did you get my first email? It was quite long.

Vanessa Raath:
07:02

Did you read it? You haven't got much to say in emails 2 or 3. But if you think like a marketer, basically what happens then is that you actually start sending that information from the very long first email across, like, 5 or 6 emails. So, basically, you are drip feeding information to your candidates and your clients, which works way better than bombarding them with a really long email upfront.

Rhona Pierce:
07:26

Yes. And it's always interesting to me how much we can learn in talent acquisition from marketers and how much we, as an industry, neglect to learn from them. They are marketing to people. We are marketing to people. So there's a lot to learn about how marketers do things and a lot that we can adapt into what we do in our day to day jobs.

Vanessa Raath:
07:50

Yeah. Absolutely. And that's why it's becoming like a little bit of a gray line blue line, isn't it, between what does marketing do in a company? What does talent acquisition do? Because, I mean, we're all marketing to get more people on board.

Rhona Pierce:
08:01

Yeah. We just have different audiences. So do you have any stories? I know you've been doing this for a while and you've worked with a lot of companies. Do you have any stories about a time when a email campaign helped you or someone that you know connect with a hard to reach candidate?

Vanessa Raath:
08:19

So I've got lots of stories. I mean, I don't have one that's really springing out to mind now, but I will tell you what what does spring to mind when I think about email campaigns. And I always emphasize this in my training, is that I always say put your candidates or your clients into a 4 or 4 or 5 email campaign. So there's 4 or 5 emails. But the key thing is that last email has to be your dear John.

Vanessa Raath:
08:43

Now those of us who were around, you know, in the eighties, Ronan, I don't know if you remember this. Dear John was that sitcom, and the person, his wife or girlfriend broke up with him by leaving him a Dear John note on top of the fireplace one day and, you know, off she went. You have to, as a recruiter, tell that candidate that this is the last email that you are sending them. So it's your dear John email. You're breaking up with them.

Vanessa Raath:
09:05

So saying things like, you know, I really I realize that you are super busy, and everything's obviously going alright in your job. You don't need my services. This is gonna be the last email that I'm gonna send to you, but you are welcome to stay in touch. And if you've written a good email campaign and you've given them lots of information and, they've enjoyed it, that is the email that they they answer. So a lot of the times you've got to get to, you know, that second or even 3rd week in your email campaign before you start getting answers from people.

Vanessa Raath:
09:36

And that for me is always a really good tip.

Rhona Pierce:
09:38

Yeah. So how can recruiters craft emails that go beyond just the job description and actually connect with candidates on a personal level?

Vanessa Raath:
09:50

So there's a couple of things there, but the first thing that I actually really recommend is don't just go and reach out to a candidate after looking at their LinkedIn profile because you don't get all of the information that you want to actually use in your reach out campaign from LinkedIn. I mean, I find that I have to give a good Google search for someone to find out things like, Oh, wait. Hold on. They also run this community. Or maybe they wrote this book, or they were a guest on this vlog, or they were a guest on someone's podcast that you could have listened to.

Vanessa Raath:
10:20

So it's it's about Googling that person before you actually reach out so that you could mention something that they've done. Maybe you were at the same event. Maybe you've got friends in common. For me, that's really, really important because you want to, you know, really up your personalization. So I'm not meaning go on to Facebook and say things like, Hey, I saw your daughter turn 1 this weekend.

Vanessa Raath:
10:41

That's amazing. I hope the party was good. Like, that's freaky stuff. Like, you don't want that. But, I mean, if you've got kids, you could always say something like, I'm just out to do the school run or, you know, just be personable.

Vanessa Raath:
10:51

They've got kids. They understand. So for me, that's really, really important is that you've got to do a little bit of research. Yes, it does take longer, but it does help. And that for me is what is important, is that you've got to make that connection with someone.

Vanessa Raath:
11:05

So I always advocate to have a 50% template because, you know, like, what are you telling them about the job and the company that potentially won't change? You need to tweak it a little bit to why it's a good move for them, but the information about the company, their mission and values, their CSI or CSR, whatever it is, is pretty bog standard. But the rest of the email, the other 55%, it's really important that you then make sure that the person knows that you've done your homework about them. I mean, isn't it better to reach out to someone and say, I listened to your podcast or, you know, there was a fantastic presentation that you gave straight away before, I came across your CV on LinkedIn.

Rhona Pierce:
11:44

Yeah. As you're saying this, I'm remembering I always remember this LinkedIn. It was a LinkedIn message that I sent. But to someone that was everyone on the team had tried to reach out to her. We really wanted her because she was a community leader in the city that we were recruiting for, and we knew the chances of getting her were pretty low.

Rhona Pierce:
12:05

But the way she was connected were high. And when I googled her, no everyone was just looking at her LinkedIn. When I googled her, I realized she had just come back from a trip to Panama where I'm from, and she had this whole blog post about the angry honking. Driving in Panama is very interesting, and honking is a way of communication when driving. And I remember I just I just the the subject I think the subject line was like, we're not all angry honkers.

Rhona Pierce:
12:34

I promise. And she replied to my email within minutes. She's like, I rarely reply to recruiters. And I knew because my entire team had tried to reach out. And she said, the fact that you took the time to read one of my nontechnical blogs is what made me interested in replying to your message.

Rhona Pierce:
12:54

Just normal human interaction 101.

Vanessa Raath:
12:57

Exactly, Rhonda. A 100%. What a brilliant example, and and well done to you. I mean, that was very clever, you know, to to throw in the the Panama as well. I mean, that's brilliant.

Vanessa Raath:
13:07

And and, look, you've got a response. And and that's what I'm talking about is that you're always going to find something where there's a connection. People get out and about these days. So you can always refer to something because, again, I mean, all of the other recruiters that you're competing against are literally starting with came across your profile on LinkedIn.

Rhona Pierce:
13:24

Exactly. What types of content have you found are the most effective, in engaging candidates through email?

Vanessa Raath:
13:32

So I think authentic authentic content. So I don't think that you need to be lying. I mean, I I mean, I had an example with a team that I was training, and they were trying to get this guy's attention that they also wanted on their team. They were talking about how this person was running. There's a big race here in South Africa called Comrades, and it's an ultra marathon, and they started talking running to them.

Vanessa Raath:
13:52

Now the person didn't do any running, the recruiter. So what happened was is to kind of long story short, the guy got the role at the company. The company had quite a big I mean, it was a big company. They had a running club or whatever. And then he managed to he he kept on saying to the recruiter, come.

Vanessa Raath:
14:07

You you you spoke about how you'd go running, and I want you to join the running club with me. And it was very awkward because this person, there was a guy. He wasn't a runner at all, yet he had kind of played on that, you know, on that side of the human being and had lied and said, you know, I'm a runner. And every time he saw me, he had to, like, develop this chronic limp to say, oh, no. I still got an injury or, you know, I can't join the running club.

Vanessa Raath:
14:30

And it's just like, that just doesn't work. So for me, it's got to be honest. It's got to be authentic. And I think you've got to understand the person you're reaching out to is position. I mean, think about it.

Vanessa Raath:
14:40

I mean, a DevOps architect must get, you know, 10 emails a day from recruiters. You know? So play on that. You know? I'm sure you're sick and tired of hearing from recruiters.

Vanessa Raath:
14:50

And, yes, I am just another recruiter, but what I'm offering you is what I'm sure no no other recruiters are offering you. You know, something along those lines.

Rhona Pierce:
14:57

Yeah. And that's so it's such a great tip. Lying really isn't gonna get you anywhere because at the end of the day, your goal is to hire this person. They will potentially work at the same company as you do if you're internal. And then how that's so awkward and so weird, that you would lie.

Rhona Pierce:
15:18

And I'm sure the candidate is left thinking, what else did they lie about?

Vanessa Raath:
15:23

100%. She's not a Absolutely. Yeah. And I know having been internal, I mean, you see these people at around the office, you see them at all of the office functions and, you know, you can't yeah, you've got to be honest because especially as an internal, I mean, we all know you are that ambassador for the organization. So, you know, you can't, you know, fake it every day and say, oh, I'm having such a wonderful day and come and work for us.

Vanessa Raath:
15:45

This is the best place to work. But, no, you've gotta be positive about where you work. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
15:49

Yeah. But you have to share the truth. And I always tell people, like, look, there's gonna be someone out there that likes the things about this company, whether they're not so great or not. You work there, 100 or maybe thousands of other people work there. So just find the people that are okay with the reality of what your company is, And you can showcase that since the beginning, since the first interaction, that recruiter I mean, yeah, I hate running personally.

Rhona Pierce:
16:18

I would have said to someone, hey. I see that you're a runner. We have a running club. Me personally, I'm not the biggest fan of running, but I admire anyone who runs or just something like that. Still talking about what they like, piquing their interest, but you don't have to lie and say you're a runner.

Vanessa Raath:
16:36

Yeah. No. Exactly. A 100%. So so for me, yeah, that that's the trick.

Vanessa Raath:
16:40

It's about building that rapport from the very first kind of interaction. I read such an interesting thing today. I was reading an article about getting a candid reach out, and it was about every sentence that you write, you want to encourage them to be going on to read the next sentence. And I think that that is, you know, you've got to every sentence has to count, and that's really important.

Rhona Pierce:
17:02

That's a good segue into my next question, which is, what are some creative ways to personalize your email outreach so that you can stand out in a crowded inbox? Because we know everyone's inbox is crowded.

Vanessa Raath:
17:14

So first of all, you know, the big one, and also I was reading in this article today, it's your subject lines. You've got to make sure that you got your number of characters right. It was it went into a lot of detail about people generally are opening their emails on their mobile devices these days. People are more attached to their mobile phones than they are to their laptop. So that's a big one.

Vanessa Raath:
17:33

So the first one is you got to get that subject line right. What works for me is putting the person's name in there, but not in, like, a salesy kind of way, asking a question so there's a question mark so people almost feel compelled to go and open the email and read it is another one. But I think what we do tend to forget is that, you know, we have a whole lot of color that we can use in our email, and everyone sends their emails in black and white. So, you know, if I go and do my research on someone and I see, you know, like, for me, for an example, I'm a vegetarian. I love being outdoors.

Vanessa Raath:
18:04

I love nature. I'm a green person. Okay? So why don't you put the text of your email in green? Why don't you put a paragraph in green?

Vanessa Raath:
18:11

A couple of words, you know, that you really want to draw out. Now use bullet points. Use emojis. Use use different fonts if you have to. You know, it's all about being different because most emails we get these days, if they're not advertising in an HTML format, they're pretty boring.

Vanessa Raath:
18:27

You know? So I think that's a big one is just livening up the look and feel. A lot of people put too much in those emails. The shorter, the better. The shorter the emails actually, within reason, get a good response.

Vanessa Raath:
18:40

In my email campaign, just to share with you, my 3rd email is generally always a meme. So something along the lines of, you know, no response, are you frozen? You know, one of those that that go out, especially if that's, you know, mom of daughters or I mean, they get it. But, yeah, funny ones for developers, software engineers, you know, those kind of things. You can make your own memes these days if you want to throw in their names.

Vanessa Raath:
19:02

Yeah. I just think that it's it's thinking differently. And then also things like I'm not one of those people that have on my email signature the link to my Calendly because, you know, it does get pulled up and I want to make sure that I'm speaking to the right people. But I think that that signature is incredibly powerful. I mean, you could have links there to your job page.

Vanessa Raath:
19:22

One of the things I say in my email signature is that this email will send us at a convenient time for me. Please feel free to respond to it at a convenient time for you Because, I mean, my client base is all over the world, so people are gonna get emails from me at, like, 1, 2 in the morning because that's just the nature of what it's what it is like. And then at least people know. So I think there's lots of links and there's lots of things you could be doing with your email signature too that will help you to stand up.

Rhona Pierce:
19:48

Yeah. And anytime I speak to recruiters about personalizing emails, the number one thing I hear, and maybe you've heard it too, is, well, that takes a lot of time. So how do you balance, like, personalizing and being efficient? Because we are sending lots of emails or reaching out to lots of candidates.

Vanessa Raath:
20:08

Absolutely, Rona. And I completely agree. And I hear it all the time in my training too. But Van, this is going to take forever. And I think that you've got to think about, you know, what are you recruiting for?

Vanessa Raath:
20:18

I mean, if you're searching for a Java architect versus a call center agent, I mean, which one are you going to personalize? Which one are you going to spend more time on? And I think that that's what we've got to realize. And you've also got to take into account how busy you are. I mean, don't get me wrong, the old spray and pray method of posting an advert.

Vanessa Raath:
20:37

Also, if it's for a junior role and, you know, you're looking for you're doing bulk recruitment, that's great. But I'm talking about, you know, those more specialized roles, the hard to fill roles, the one that you were talking about earlier, they just need a little bit more care and attention. And I think you need to decide that based on where you recruit, what you're recruiting for, and your volumes, you know, how busy you are. But I think if you get into the habit of it's Rona, to be honest with you, it actually becomes quite quick. And that's why I say, like, have that 50% templates already, you know, and then you can just add in the personalization.

Rhona Pierce:
21:10

Yeah. Templates aren't bad. I think what's bad is sending the exact same template to everyone, whether it applies to them or not. But using a template is just a smart way of being efficient with your time.

Vanessa Raath:
21:24

100%. Absolutely. And I think that that's that's a great answer.

Rhona Pierce:
21:29

What are some common mistakes that you see recruiters and TA folks do when it comes to email outreach?

Vanessa Raath:
21:36

So one thing that I see is that it's just outreach in general is that this whole thing of desperation. So within 5 minutes, the person's LinkedIn email from them. They have an email. They've got a missed call on their phone, and they have a WhatsApp or a Telegram or a signal or a Facebook Messenger. It's like too much.

Vanessa Raath:
21:54

Okay? Calm down. This isn't gonna work. So that's what I what I see happening is that it's it's, you know, we're so keen, we're so desperate to get a hold of them. We need to learn how to spread those things out.

Vanessa Raath:
22:06

Other things that I see, I mean, which is terrible, I received one last week. Actually, my name's spelled wrong. Sometimes I have the incorrect name. And at the moment, what is raising its ugly head is a lot of AI generated content, you know, especially when I know the person and I know how they speak, I know which country they come from, and I'm like, I'm sure this was written by that person. I know how they express themselves, you know, things like that.

Vanessa Raath:
22:32

So for me, those are like the obvious ones. Everyone has got the ability to take, you know, text, run it through 0 GPT, and, you know, get it to do the analysis for it and see, you know, who generated this. And, yeah, for me, it's just a it's a frustrating thing that's happening far too often.

Rhona Pierce:
22:49

How do you leverage data and metrics to refine and improve email campaign performance?

Vanessa Raath:
22:57

So it's really, really interesting question. So I obviously use an email reach outs tool. So when I'm doing this, I'll be honest, I use a tool called Sourcewell. I think that they are really good, and they do all the measuring of the metrics for me because before that, I was doing what most recruiters do and I wasn't measuring. Because how do you keep track of every single email that leaves your inbox as a recruiter?

Vanessa Raath:
23:20

You know, and and I think that you raise a very valid point. You know, the data's there. We need the metrics. For me, if you look at LinkedIn, they put out their annual report, and they said their average response rate of in mails was 20%. And I'm like, well, that's just not good enough, you know.

Vanessa Raath:
23:36

And it got me thinking about, you know, email campaigns. A tool that's very common in the US is GEM. You know, they also do outreach campaigns. A lot of the tools like, you know, your hire Eazys, they also have inbuilt campaigns now to their software. So there's actually no excuse for not measuring, and I think it's good to have a little bit of a healthy competition within your team.

Vanessa Raath:
23:57

You know? What is the average, open rates? What's the average response rates? And it just actually makes it a whole lot more interesting because otherwise, you're actually just shooting in the dark, aren't you? You're like sending out emails, you're trying your best, but you don't actually really know what works.

Vanessa Raath:
24:11

And that's why I like this whole thing about AB testing. You know, you've got a subject line, AB test, which one's gonna get a higher open rate. I mean, that's also important. And now we have the ability to do it, which is amazing.

Rhona Pierce:
24:22

Yeah. I love AB testing, subject lines, and just all of the the things that using a email tool can give you. Beyond open rates, are there any other metrics that you look at when it comes to emails?

Vanessa Raath:
24:37

Definitely open rates versus response rates because then you know that your message is landing. Other metrics would be which email is getting the response. So, you know, actually, maybe I need to pull that email into earlier on in my campaign. And also other metrics like, you know, what time is the most popular that the emails are open? You know, that's also a big one.

Vanessa Raath:
24:56

Which day is most popular? I always say that if you're sending an email campaign and you've got someone on their Gmail, make sure one of those emails lands on a Saturday or Sunday because that's when a lot of people do check their Gmail addresses over the weekend. So I think that there's lots of learnings that we could take from a a single email campaign.

Rhona Pierce:
25:14

Yeah. There there's definitely a lot you can learn. How many, like, do you recommend sending the emails, like, every day? Let's say I have a 5 email campaign. Do you recommend sending 1 every day, once a week, over 5 weeks?

Rhona Pierce:
25:30

Like, what's the frequency that you've seen works?

Vanessa Raath:
25:32

So I actually have one set up that actually works to be over 2 and a half weeks. So I don't send every day. I think that that's that's not great. As I say, one of them must land on a weekend, but definitely 2 to 3, sometimes 4 days in between. So my first one to 4, normally do about 2 or 3 days, mix it up a bit.

Vanessa Raath:
25:54

And then my last one, I normally leave about 4 or 5 days and then they get the gear, John, kind of break up email. And it doesn't have to be week workdays. It's it's just a couple of days in between. Yeah. And also, I mean, I do kind of think about public holidays and things like that.

Vanessa Raath:
26:08

I try not to send emails, especially on religious holidays. You know, sometimes it's not your religion, so you forget. So, yeah, it's it's a couple of things to to think about.

Rhona Pierce:
26:18

Yeah. A lot to think about. How can TA folks use email to build genuine relationships with potential candidates, even if they're not the right fit today, but just to build those future pipeline relationships?

Vanessa Raath:
26:32

So I think it's always good to be honest. You know, if the person isn't right for the job today, they could be right for the job tomorrow or next week or next month or next year, whatever it is. You wanna stay in touch. And I really encourage more recruiters not to a lot of people, like, do their sales pitch and they say, well, we've got over a 1,000 candidates or 10,000 candidates or a 100,000 candidates on our CRM or our ATS, whatever it is. And for me, the first thing that goes through my mind is, well, that's a candidate graveyard.

Vanessa Raath:
27:00

Because if you're not keeping in touch with people, you're not keeping that information updated, it's no use. I mean, I'd rather have a network. So one of the things I do is if I'm, you know, chatting with the individual and they're not suitable now is I always just get them into my LinkedIn network because that's where I'm most active. I try and post on there 3 times a week, but also to try and, you know, automate from, again, my ATS to my CRM system to send them, you know, do you want to sign up for the monthly hot jobs or, you know, make sure there's an email going out saying, do you want to update your details, make sure that you're following all of the data privacy. I mean, GDPR, we've got CopyX, you know, whatever it is all over the world that you compliant with those.

Vanessa Raath:
27:43

It's a good excuse to actually keep in touch with people. But, yeah, I just think that it's it's a bit of a waste that now that person goes and sits in an ATS never to be heard of again. So it's generating interesting campaigns. But the best thing, and what I've been focusing on a lot this year, is think about setting up a community. You know, don't put those people into an ATS or a CRM, put them into like a circle community or heartbeat or whatever it is, and keep interacting with them.

Vanessa Raath:
28:10

Get some conversations going. That is far more effective.

Rhona Pierce:
28:13

Yeah. So many people think of a talent pipeline as this collection of contact information that you never reach out to until you need them. And that's literally not how networking works.

Vanessa Raath:
28:27

100%. You're so right. You hit the nail on the head. You know, you gotta keep these people warm instead of and that's why I laugh because, you know, that's how a lot of people treat LinkedIn is that, you know, you don't know the person from a bar. So if you've never met them, but we all immediately think LinkedIn is like a monster or a job board or something, you know, and we just assume everyone's on the market.

Vanessa Raath:
28:47

So, yeah, that's a you raised a very good point.

Rhona Pierce:
28:49

What advice would you give to recruiters and talent sources who are looking to take and just start using email campaigns?

Vanessa Raath:
28:57

For me, the best advice is always do your campaign upfront. So meet with your clients, take your brief, know exactly what's going on, ask the questions about the company. Because say, for example, you know email 4 is about CSI, CSR, or you know, you wanted to find out more about that. Where can you find the photos? Are they on the website?

Vanessa Raath:
29:16

Where can you link to? Is it on a YouTube channel, Etcetera, etcetera. So, you know, you've got to have all of that information. So before I even start sourcing, I actually put that 50% template together so that it's there, it's ready because it's you get into the flow of things, you're finding people, and now you're trying to write an email campaign at the same time. So that's frustrating.

Vanessa Raath:
29:36

That doesn't work. So my advice is to get those email campaigns up and running. Again, you can use the same kind of campaign, the same template for the same company. You've just got to maybe mix it up, add in your personalization. It's all about staying streamlined.

Vanessa Raath:
29:50

You know, you don't want to you don't want to be reinventing the wheel every single time. So I actually use OneNote for this, and I have a whole lot of OneNote pages, one for each client, and I have all of the email campaigns that are set up over there.

Rhona Pierce:
30:03

OneNote is one of my favorite tools, and it's been with me since college. I've seen the evolution of OneNote, but I've been using I'm such a fan of it, and it's so underutilized, I think.

Vanessa Raath:
30:16

Absolutely. And and yeah. I I totally agree. I mean, I I talk to recruiters about this in my training. Like, what's OneNote?

Vanessa Raath:
30:21

I'm like, just download it. Use it. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
30:25

So if if listeners wanna learn more about you and about your training, which is awesome, how can they connect with you?

Vanessa Raath:
30:33

Sure, Rona. All you say that I'm not difficult to find. Right? I am on all pretty much social platforms. I have my own YouTube channel.

Vanessa Raath:
30:40

It's Van_ Roth. I'm on X. I'm on TikTok. I'm on Facebook. I'm on LinkedIn.

Vanessa Raath:
30:46

So wherever they are comfortable, they can track me down. My website is vanessaroff.com. And if you send me a message on LinkedIn, I'm quite happy to send you a link back. I have got 3 sets of free training now on my online academy. I am more than happy to to give you the links to all of those courses and, yeah, don't get stuck in.

Vanessa Raath:
31:04

I mean, one of my sayings in life is ABL, always be learning, and it's something that I really stick to. So get involved.

Rhona Pierce:
31:11

Perfect. And I'll also add those links to your courses and how to connect with you to the show notes. This has been such a great conversation and such a timely one because I do think, especially in the summertime now for the US and and Europe, it's email is a really good way to get a hold of candidates.

Vanessa Raath:
31:34

Absolutely. A 100%. So thank you for having me, Rona. I appreciate being a guest amongst all of the other esteemed guests that you've had on your show, and I really wish you every success. You're amazing.

Rhona Pierce:
31:44

That wraps up my conversation with Vanessa. Thanks again for being on the show. Today's conversation is a reminder that email campaigns are still a powerful tool in recruiting. Remember, as Vanessa says, always be learning. Keep refining your strategies, and don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to talent sourcing.

Rhona Pierce:
32:05

If you wanna learn from Vanessa herself how to use the entire Internet to find talent that no one else can find, be sure to check out academy dotvanessaroth.com. You'll find all of Vanessa's courses and a bunch of free resources to help you level up your sourcing game. The link is in the show notes. And if you wanna learn how to get the best talent to contact you and increase your response rates, listen to episode 12, where Anna Morgan shares how to build a personal brand that will transform your recruiting career. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.