#17: Real Talk: Recruiting Content to Empower Candidates & Demystify Hiring with Tejal Rives

Rhona Pierce:
00:00

There's a content creation strategy that can make you a better recruiter, advocate for job seekers, and potentially influence hiring decisions at the highest levels. And my guest today has been doing it for nearly a decade. Decade.

Tejal Rives:
00:14

It's made me a better ally to job seekers. As a recruiter, you only have so many hours in the day, and you only talk to so many people because the burnout is real. Content creation has opened up a whole new batch of people that I would not typically speak to.

Rhona Pierce:
00:30

That's Tejal Reeves, a recruiter whose content creation journey started as a way to give candidates the prep her company wouldn't allow. Now her insights are influencing hiring practices and advocating for job seekers.

Tejal Rives:
00:46

My part out there is I just stop post date for a few days and see where that takes. And, like, I'll be like, okay. I'll start again, post a few days a week, and see where that takes. Like, I have, like, a very much of, like, okay, work on everything in the experiment. It's constantly evolving, and we're just gonna continue experimenting.

Tejal Rives:
01:04

And like, if the experiment fails, that's okay. We start something new.

Rhona Pierce:
01:08

In this episode, Tejal will take us through her content creation process from ideation to impact. She'll share how she balances honesty with empathy, approaches sensitive topics, and avoids burnout. Whether you're an experienced content creator or you're just starting out, this episode will give you the tools to enhance your recruiting practice through strategic content creation. Welcome to throw out the playbook, the podcast for recruiters tired of hearing that hiring is broken and ready to do something about it. I'm your host, Rona Pierce.

Rhona Pierce:
01:46

Let's dive into my conversation with Tajil. So thank you so much for being on the show today. I really wanted to have this conversation with you. I've been I think we've been following each other for a long time, and I really love your content and how open and honest you are with job seekers. So how did you get started creating content for job seekers?

Tejal Rives:
02:13

Oh my god. It's been so long. I feel that I'm coming up on 10 years of content creation. Like, I think I started in 2015, 2016. It was my first job right out of, agency, and it was my 1st corporate job, corporate recruiting job.

Tejal Rives:
02:32

And what I realized is that I wasn't able to that that company wasn't allowing me to give the type of prep that I would normally give. Like, in an agency setting, you give a lot of prep to your candidate. You have a lot of knowledge. And by leadership in this, organization, they were like, you know what? No.

Tejal Rives:
02:49

You can't give as much prep as you want. Like, you can give them some information, not all the information. I was like, that's really like, to me, it was not we we were doing a disservice to our candidates. Like, they need to know this information if we're expecting, like, you know, even in a test, even in college, in school, like, you know what is gonna come up in your test. Right?

Tejal Rives:
03:09

Like, you you get time to prepare. So really, that's when I started creating content to create this level of transparency and to create some advice around it because not a lot of people were posting advice back then. Back in 2015, 2016, there was not a lot of recruiters out there, you know, truly creating content on LinkedIn that was helpful to job seekers. And I was like, okay. This is from a recruiter's perspective.

Tejal Rives:
03:36

This is what we look for. This is, like, how we look at things. And, of course, I've made mistakes. I've said some things that I'm like, oh, that was really daunting. You know?

Tejal Rives:
03:45

Like, you should probably shouldn't have said that looking back into it. But that was really where I started is just to bridge that gap that I couldn't do because of my role. I couldn't give my candidates that level of information and the level of prep. So I was like, I'll start here. Maybe if they follow me, like, if they contact with me on LinkedIn, they'll see the information that they are supposed to know.

Rhona Pierce:
04:11

Yeah. I think we've all posted something where we're like, oh, maybe shouldn't have, but it's already out there on the Internet. And, also, with job seekers, it's you know that they're gonna go look at your LinkedIn. Most of them are. They're gonna go look at someone's LinkedIn.

Rhona Pierce:
04:30

So, yes, that's a great way to bridge that gap of your organization not allowing you to prep. I I really like that. So can you walk us through your process for generating content ideas? Like, how do you make sure that you're addressing what job seekers really want to know?

Tejal Rives:
04:48

Oh, that's a great question. Typically, what I've done and I've kinda, like, gone back and forth a bit how much I put content I put out there because their burnout was real. Right? There was a time when I didn't post for 6 months because I was just you know, there's, like, there are people out there that are trolls that will tell you that you're doing something wrong or you're what you're saying is incorrect because they did one part of a your job 20 years ago as part of their overall job. That's why they they're right and you're wrong.

Tejal Rives:
05:19

Right? So the the burnout did come out a lot of times. Typically, what I look at is what are people asking? And like, what are job seekers asking? What are my friends asking?

Tejal Rives:
05:32

Even though I have conversations as a recruiter with with job seekers throughout my career, I'm like, what do you wanna know? Like, tell me what questions do you have and not really like, I tick down doubts. I'm like, okay. Like, this is in a week, I'll see your trend. Has everyone asked me a question that is are on the same theme?

Tejal Rives:
05:51

Okay. I'll write the content about that. And what I learned is that you kinda have to repeat a lot of the information because you might have new followers that people forget. You know, content creation, like, LinkedIn is like, if you go on either one of our pages and look at our content, like, it's gonna go back so far and people forget that they have seen this information. So, like, it's a constant recycle and constant update of content creation.

Tejal Rives:
06:18

Sometimes when I'm like, oh, I wanna write something today, but I don't know what I wanna write about because I feel burnt out. I'll go back and, like, look at the last couple of weeks or a couple of months of, like, content and be like, okay. Like, what can I recycle? What do I need to say again? That is still important.

Tejal Rives:
06:34

So I'll do that.

Rhona Pierce:
06:35

That's such a important thing that you highlighted. People don't remember our content, and I was talking to Joel Laughey

Tejal Rives:
06:43

Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
06:43

About that in a in a previous episode. Really, we don't. And I recently did a a test because I was having some issues and life issues, and I couldn't create new content. And I went back 3 months, and I reposted an entire week from 3 months ago of the same exact content. And it did way better this time.

Rhona Pierce:
07:04

And, like, people who had commented on the first time I posted it commented like, oh, this is so great. They literally did not remember. So we need to keep that in mind because everyone's always so stressed on trying to come up with new content. People don't remember what you posted, and you also have new followers.

Tejal Rives:
07:22

Yeah. And it's one of the things when I started getting, like, consistent last year on TikTok or earlier this year on TikTok, I was texting Mike DeVito. I'm like, Mike, like, I know you've, like, created great content and you've got all of those followers. Like, can I, like, ask you? He's the one who's like, you're gonna recreate content.

Tejal Rives:
07:40

Like, you are going to have to recreate content. People are gonna forget. You can make playlist playlist after playlist, but it's gonna be hard for you to say, hey. Go look at this video or go look at this post because people forget you have new followers. And I was like, that's a great point.

Tejal Rives:
07:54

Like, I didn't think about that from, like, a TikTok perspective. I'm like, oh, I need to do that on TikTok as well or on YouTube. Right? Like, you look at Amy, some of the YouTubers that we have, and they're like, a lot of the content is repetitive and it's needed. It's repetitive because it's needed.

Rhona Pierce:
08:10

Exactly. How do you stay updated on job seeker needs and, like, industry trends to keep your content relevant because we know things change really quick in our industry.

Tejal Rives:
08:22

Yeah. One of the things that I do is, like, it's just so funny. Like, I have friends that are consistently looking for jobs. So various at various points throughout the year, I have, like, random friends that will reach out to me and they'll, like, start asking me a question. Like, one of my best friends, she's currently looking for a job.

Tejal Rives:
08:40

This morning, she texted me and she's like, how do I nicely say that I wanna see the actual offer letter and not just accept like, give my notice on, like, a verbal offer? And I'm like and it was, like, 7:30 in the morning. I'm like, I am not ready. Give me, like, an hour. I'll give you that information.

Tejal Rives:
08:56

Right? So that's one of the ways that I try to stay relevant. And then if I know one of my friends is looking for a job, I'll, like, just check-in and say, hey, how was the interview going? What happened? Did did you get a second interview?

Tejal Rives:
09:08

What did they say? The other thing I do is I do look at other people's posts. People in our industry, like, I look at your post. I look at Amy's post. I'll look at Bonnie's post, Leah's post, Mike's post, Daniel's post.

Tejal Rives:
09:22

Like, I'll look at all of Joel's post. Like, I'll look at all of our posts. And I'm like, okay. Like, what are we seeing? Or I'll see Amy's comment section.

Tejal Rives:
09:27

I'll go and look at where is Amy commenting? Commenting. That is, like, my number one thing. Like, whenever I'm burnt out, I'm like, let me see what Amy is commenting on because you know people are tagging. Right?

Tejal Rives:
09:39

And I'm so, like, proud of her, like, surpassing all of the followers that she's gotten in, like, a short it feels like a short period of time, but, like, still it's been years. Can I also go and see, like, okay? What is Amy commenting on? One of 3 things. It's, either something dumb regarding ATS.

Tejal Rives:
09:57

It's either somebody yelling at recruiters or, like, she she was just, like, helping somebody out. Right? Like or she's things like that. So I kinda, like, look at people's post and their comment section. Like, see what they're commenting on to stay relevant.

Tejal Rives:
10:11

Because if I don't do that level of research, I feel that, like, it's very easy to be stagnant and to lose that touch with the job seeker reality. And at the end

Rhona Pierce:
10:21

of the day, that's who the content is for. I do the same thing. I look at everyone else's content and their comment section because what people are asking. And it doesn't mean that I look at someone else's post and copy exactly what they did because, 1, even if I agree with them, I can have a different angle or a different way of saying the same thing. So I'll never copy people.

Rhona Pierce:
10:45

And if I am going to say exactly the same thing that someone else is saying, I'm always gonna credit them and tag them. Yeah. But it's so easy to go in and see what people are talking to because that's what they wanna know. And if your content is for them, then give them what they wanna know. It can't be what you want to say.

Tejal Rives:
11:05

Yeah. Yeah. Like, content creation is communication. Communication is always about the other person. If you're not communicating to the other person, you're not doing your job.

Tejal Rives:
11:14

Exactly.

Rhona Pierce:
11:15

How do you make sure that your content is honest and transparent about the realities of the job search?

Tejal Rives:
11:22

For me personally, it's been fairly easy because I'm not here like from the beginning, I my goal has never been to take my content creation to the level where I can quit my job. It's never been about getting x number of followers, getting brand deals, or getting any of that. My true intent behind content creation is to have a creative outlet, is to create this level of transparency that and give information that I didn't have when I first started in corporate America. Because there are so many first generation people, not just immigrants, but people that don't have parents in corporate America, people that don't have any family members in corporate America. So my goal has always been to create this level of transparency and give honest advice.

Tejal Rives:
12:10

Sometimes that advice is not cool. It's not helpful. Like, not not helpful. It's not nice. It's not Popular.

Tejal Rives:
12:19

Popular. Right? But it's still honest advice. Like, I would love to tell you that an ATS is eating up your resume. That's a great thing.

Tejal Rives:
12:29

I can get a 1000000 followers by making those kind of posts, but that's not the reality as of right now. ATS is not eating up your resume. Covers are still reviewing your resumes. So to me, it's all it's about creating honest and transparent content that will be helpful. It's funny because, like, you can say something nice or you can say something honest.

Tejal Rives:
12:52

And what's gonna be helpful every single time is honesty in the long term. I don't wanna be your best friend that tells you what you wanna hear. I want to be the person that you go to for real advice.

Rhona Pierce:
13:06

Yeah. And as humans, we obviously don't wanna be canceled. We want people to like us, but we also, I think, as recruiters, have a huge responsibility in the content that we're sharing because people are trusting that a insider, like, we are insiders, are telling them the truth. Yeah. But, also, people want it's interesting.

Rhona Pierce:
13:30

They love the content that's very optimistic, that's very telling them, like, oh, it's not your fault. You're not doing anything wrong. How do you strike a balance between providing that optimistic career advice and, like, really setting real expectations about the hiring process?

Tejal Rives:
13:46

It's a balance. You're right. Like, it is a balance, that we have to strike because I don't always wanna be like, well, you did something wrong or the company did something wrong because the reality is that you can do everything right and still not get the job. Right? You can do everything.

Tejal Rives:
14:02

You can have the best resume, best interview. You can have insider connections. You can be the best candidate in your head, but you don't know your competition. And you can still, like because you don't know your competition, this is like a blind like, you're fight fighting against the wall. Right?

Tejal Rives:
14:20

You will still lose that job. So I always try to tell people, I'm like, it's not your fault. Some of these things is not your fault. If you are especially with candidates that are getting interviews. And, like, if you're getting interviews, do not worry about your resume.

Tejal Rives:
14:34

Your resume is doing its job, which is getting you interviews. Now let's talk about your interview strategy. And it's about showcasing to me, like, people come to me and they're like, oh my god. I finally got a job. All I got, like, your advice was helpful.

Tejal Rives:
14:51

My best friend that I was just talking about, she's like, she got a job. Like, I I got an offer. And she's been doing this for, like, a couple of months. Right? Like, it's it's been a hard couple of months.

Tejal Rives:
14:59

So thankfully, she has a job right now. So she's looking for a new job or something better. And I have another friend who is doesn't have a job right now. And so for them, like, I'm like, okay. You are doing everything right.

Tejal Rives:
15:13

You are getting interviews. You are getting to the final round of the interviews. Now we just need to get to that point where we could get you the offer. You're doing everything right. You are a finalist.

Tejal Rives:
15:24

You're one of 2 people. That's a great thing, especially in this market. So it's the encouragement encouraging words. Right? Like, because we want to be better.

Tejal Rives:
15:35

We want to get the job. And getting to that point also means that you need to encourage the people and say, hey. You are doing everything right. This market just is a dumpster fire. Right?

Tejal Rives:
15:47

Like, I tell people this all the time, and people argue with me. I'm like, this market is just an absolute dumpster fire. It's been a dumpster fire for a very long time. I don't think it's gonna get any better anytime soon, and we just have to roll over the punches because we there's only so much we can control. And it's about giving people the control back in their life and in their job search.

Tejal Rives:
16:03

Like, you can't control control back in their life and in their job search. Like, you can't control how the market operates. What you can control is what you do. So let's figure out what you do.

Rhona Pierce:
16:13

Yep. That's very, very good advice. I also recently helped a family member who's navigating a very long drawn out job search, and the emotions and the the up and down, it's just it's hard, but you have to tell people sometimes it's just not you. Like you said, you don't know the other person. You don't know the competition.

Rhona Pierce:
16:36

And trust me, sometimes people wanna know the competition, and this is a whole other conversation I could have. I remember the one time that I was interviewing for a job, and I knew my competition was because it was someone who accidentally told me that they were going against the the same job. Yeah. It was worse. I prefer not to know.

Tejal Rives:
16:57

Yeah. Exactly. Because you are now comparing apples to oranges. Right? You are 2 different people.

Tejal Rives:
17:03

Like, when I transitioned into my card role, it was an internal role. And I was like, okay. I could figure out who my competition is. I am a recruiter. Like, I do have access, but why would I do that to myself?

Tejal Rives:
17:16

Like, I know what I need to do in order to do my best and be my best at this interview. And that's exactly what I did. And I was out there it's funny to say this. Not that I wasn't their first choice, but, like, I still ended up getting the job. I'm like, I'm happy.

Tejal Rives:
17:32

I'm a happy 90 year old. Like, I'm just glad I got this job because of the trend transition I've been wanting to make for a very long time. But knowing your competition is not always good. Knowing your competition, like, we're not in a race. Like, we're not in a traditional competition.

Tejal Rives:
17:47

Right? Like, in a we'll talk about the Olympics. Simone Biles knows who her competition is, but they're doing the exact same thing. They have to do the exact same thing. She knows exactly what she needs to do.

Tejal Rives:
18:00

Simone Biles does not worry about her competition as much as, like, I feel job seekers, just humans as in general, we worry about our competition. And one of the things that I like not that I'm an athlete. I'm never gonna be at that level. But, like, one of the things I like to learn from athletes and, like, people that are at the top of the game are like, do you care about your competition? And most of the time, they don't.

Tejal Rives:
18:22

They care about their strengths and focusing and honing in on what they bring to the table. I think that's the best thing a job seeker can learn is like, don't worry about the competition. It's all noise. It's all noise and you just need to worry about who you are and what you bring to the table because that's the only way you can move forward.

Rhona Pierce:
18:40

And I think this is a good call out that all recruiters who are creating content, anyone who's recruit creating content for job seekers should keep in mind that it's such a emotional time. People are trying to see and nitpicking every single thing they do. So the content that you share shouldn't be encouraging or, like, adding to that stress. And what I mean is things like, oh, smile and don't do with this and, like, very subjective things that I, I could Yeah. Speak for hours about that type of content.

Rhona Pierce:
19:14

But it's something you have to keep in mind. Like, what you're saying out there as an expert is adding to someone's already stressful situation. So make sure that the content that you're sharing isn't adding to that. How do you approach potentially sensitive topics like DEI, neurodiversity, and just potentially sensitive topics in your content?

Tejal Rives:
19:41

Yeah. I approach it from a objective lens. And, like, it's it's hard to be objective than it is, something as subjective as discrimination. And like, I mean subjective in the sense of like, I can feel that I was discriminated against for a role. And there might not have been anything to that level.

Tejal Rives:
19:59

Right? It's very like there are objective metrics to discrimination and to us being women, us being women of color that we do like, there are day there's data around that. When it comes to those topics, when it comes to any topics, I focus on the facts. I focus on the truth. What are the numbers actually saying?

Tejal Rives:
20:19

The numbers say that women make dollar for dollar less than a man. It is truer for women of color, for black women, for Latino women, for Native American women. And I focus on, like, my privilege. And even though I'm a woman and I'm a woman of color, like, my privilege is that I'm considered, what's the word, the good immigrant. Like, the you know what I'm talking about.

Rhona Pierce:
20:44

The model they

Tejal Rives:
20:45

the minority. Like and I focus on that, but I'm like, hey. I'm coming from a place of privilege. I do not know what every single black woman is going through in this country, the type of discrimination that they face. I do not know what every single Latino woman is going to or Latinx woman is going through, Native American woman is going through.

Tejal Rives:
21:03

Right? I don't know. So I sit there and I listen to people, to experts. I'm like, what is happening? Because I wanna be able to use my privilege as the model minority and speak out against these things and, like, uplift other people.

Tejal Rives:
21:18

Otherwise, we're all just constantly I don't believe in punching down. Right? Like, on the other times, like, people I feel are punching down. And I'm like, no. The facts remain.

Tejal Rives:
21:28

These are the facts. And that's like, we can argue all day long, and you can tell me I'm wrong, and you will still be wrong because the facts don't change on that. So I focus on objective metrics and I focus on facts when it comes to neurodiversity, when it comes to DEI and discrimination and things like that. Because I would love for all of us to be in a world where these things don't exist. But the reality is we are humans and humans are finicky, and we have biases, and it's always going to be a thing.

Tejal Rives:
22:00

So how do we minimize those things? So when I approach a conversation, especially those posts oh my god. I know you've seen those posts where they're like, oh, you just need to smile more. If the person is not smiling or if they're not, like, making eye contact with me, I'm not even hiring them. I'm like, oh, let's talk about this.

Tejal Rives:
22:18

Cultural issues, neurodiversity issues. We have people with on on the spectrum. We have people women, from different cultures that have been told, hey. You can never look a man in the eye. So you are ignoring all of these facts to hire somebody like Javan is just like you, and that's gonna look just like you, and that's gonna come from the exact same background as you are.

Tejal Rives:
22:43

And I bring in data. Right? There has been research done, and I love academic data. I'm a little bit open, like I am a little bit of a puritaness when it comes to data. And when it comes to research, I believe in more academic data than, like, nonacademic data.

Tejal Rives:
22:58

So So I bring academic data. I'm like, diverse teams are more productive, are more successful, do bring in more shareholder value. So by hiring this first five minutes and looking at all of these things that are not job related, you are shooting yourself and shooting your team. You are making sure your company is never gonna get past that, like, cusp of the same people, especially in this day and age. So sorry.

Tejal Rives:
23:24

Long answer.

Rhona Pierce:
23:25

No. No. No. But it it's totally true what you said. And and I know you've probably had a lot of these conversations with hiring managers because these are the people that we're coaching and talking to on a daily basis about this type of thing.

Rhona Pierce:
23:41

But let's even take everything aside from diversity or everything. Someone might just be having a bad day. Just because someone had a bad day, they just got terrible news. Yep. But instead of canceling the interview, they sat there and had that interview with you.

Rhona Pierce:
23:57

Sorry if they weren't smiling. Maybe they just found out that someone died or or, like, whatever. You don't know. That should have nothing to do with whether they can do the job or not type of thing.

Tejal Rives:
24:11

Exactly. We always wanna look at objective metrics of the role as compared to the person's skill. Right? And eye contact is not an objective metric. It absolutely does not matter if you and I can make an eye contact.

Tejal Rives:
24:22

If we can communicate, what difference does it make? If we can collaborate, what difference does it make if I can't make eye contact? Right? Like, it's such a I feel an eighties thing or nineties thing to do. It's like, you need to make eye contact.

Tejal Rives:
24:35

I feel like anytime I come across one of those posts, I'm like, what is this eighties, like, sales movie that we're watching? Like, you feel like an eighties sales movie that I'm watching. Like, why are we doing this?

Rhona Pierce:
24:44

I think I commented recently on something, and I also added it on one of my posts, and I said friends don't let friends recruit like it's 1980. Like

Tejal Rives:
24:54

I love that.

Rhona Pierce:
24:55

Yep. Yeah. It's like, guys, why why are we even talking about this? It's like 2024.

Tejal Rives:
25:00

How has creating content for job seekers influenced your own recruiting practices? It's made me a better ally to job seekers. Listening to like, because as a recruiter, you only have so many hours in the day and you only talk to so many people because the burnout is real even as an approver. Right? Like you talk to maybe 3 people a day, 3 candidates a day and that's the extent of the conversation.

Tejal Rives:
25:26

And content creation has given me opened up a whole new, like, batch of people that I would not typically speak to and hear their voices. And I take those voices and I'm like, okay. If these people that I don't know, that are not my candidates are feeling this way, more than likely my job seekers are my my own job seekers are feeling that way. And I take that data and bring it up to my hiring managers. Like, no.

Tejal Rives:
25:53

This is this doesn't make any sense. We shouldn't be doing this. Let's talk about this. And I believe that having truthful data is always helpful in making better decisions. So I can talk about our feelings all day long.

Tejal Rives:
26:08

Feelings are important. How we feel, it's a part of human nature. It's part of the human experience. But I've noticed that when we start talking about feelings, like, people we start losing people. So I started bringing data up and I'm like, okay.

Tejal Rives:
26:23

These people don't like, this is the one the data says. This is what the job seekers are saying. We're not doing this. And one of my like, it's like an anecdotal story. I was working at a small company, and I was in a meeting with my CTO and my creative director.

Tejal Rives:
26:39

We were sitting down and my creative director and I love my like, we are still friends with this day. Adam is like, oh, I wanna send them a assessment before they come in for an interview. My CTO goes, no. I agree with Tayjal's post from earlier this week where we're not sending them an assessment until they talk to someone from your team. That was just, like, hype in the background, hyperventilating.

Tejal Rives:
27:04

I'm like, okay. I like, you know, at that point, I had, like, 30 something 1,000 followers. I knew people followed me, and I knew that was a thing, but it was the first time in my life. Like, somebody had been like, she's right. We're not doing that.

Tejal Rives:
27:16

And, like, especially a CTO level. Right? So it was very much like, yes. I'm doing something right. Yes.

Tejal Rives:
27:22

If a leader like that that has been doing hiring that has been in the industry for a lot longer than I have, like, agrees with me, then yes, like, I need to continue doing this. So that's like given me, like, the balls, if you will, to be a better advocate for job seekers. And sometimes when people get mad in, like, my deep briefs, I've had people get mad at me and people that, like, try to escalate me and try to report me to my leadership. And I'm like, all for it. If you think you have a stance, if you think you have a case against me, go report it.

Tejal Rives:
27:57

Report it up to the c CEO. See what happened. And that's what I like, I need it because I know in my heart I'm right. And if doing the right things get gets me fired, then doing the right thing got me fired and I'm okay with that. I will find a different job.

Tejal Rives:
28:12

That company was just not worth. It's how I feel.

Rhona Pierce:
28:15

It's an important callout also for all recruiters listening. It's like your content is not only for job seekers. Your hiring managers, your clients, if you're on the agency side, are seeing your content. So think twice before creating content that's, yes, it's gonna get you clicks and it's gonna go viral because the same people that you're trying to now have to work with are going to be seeing your content as well. Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
28:43

And that's a that's a good reminder there. And, I mean, in this case, it helped you. But imagine if you were saying crazy things for clicks on the Internet, How would that work with your credibility internally?

Tejal Rives:
28:56

Yeah. And I've actually had, a hiring manager at my current company reach out to me and is like, Dejal, I didn't agree with your post. I'm like, okay. Let's talk about this. And he's like, I don't think that 5 hours is enough for our like, these are principal level people that I'm hiring.

Tejal Rives:
29:12

He's like, 5 hours, I don't think, is enough for people to prep up. And I've seen people prep come and prep with like less than 5 hours and you can tell that they have not done enough prep. I'm like, you know what? I hadn't taken that into consideration. That's a good point because where I work, Amazon is a very rigorous interview process.

Tejal Rives:
29:31

Like, especially the higher up you go in the roles that you are looking to be hired at, the more prep you are gonna need to take because it's such a rigorous process. And I'm like, you know what? I didn't take that into consideration. That's a good point. I agree with you.

Tejal Rives:
29:46

Like, that did change my mind. So I do have, like thankfully, I have the those kind of relationships where my hiring managers like, I didn't agree with your policy. Let's talk about it. I'm like, okay. Let's talk about it.

Tejal Rives:
29:55

Like, tell me why you didn't agree with my folks. And sometimes I change my mind and sometimes I change their mind, and that's okay. Right? Like, we're all learning. And I'm grateful to have such great hiring managers where they're like, okay.

Tejal Rives:
30:05

I see your point. Or I'll be like, yep. Thank you for telling me. I see your point kinda deal. So

Rhona Pierce:
30:11

That that's such a cool story, and it's part of the the rewards of sharing candid insights about the hiring process. People are going to have opinions, and it's great when people can have an a difference of opinion with you in a respectful way. Like you said, sometimes people are not gonna have it in a respectful way, but that's why you delete and block people and move on. Any advice for recruiters who are creating content or who are thinking about starting to create content on how they can ensure that the content they create is actually helpful?

Tejal Rives:
30:48

Yeah. Actually, it's funny because I have a lot of people internally that do ask me. They're like, hey. You have all of these followers. Like, how do I get them?

Tejal Rives:
30:55

Like, listen. I the one number one thing I tell them, oh, like, you have to be cognizant of your own situation. My situation is that I'm not the breadwinner of my family. I don't have to worry about if I say something and, like, my company decides, hey, that was over the line. We are not going to allow that.

Tejal Rives:
31:14

You're written up. You're fired. Whatever the case may be, I know I'm okay because I'm not the breadwinner my husband is. I don't have to worry about that. Right?

Tejal Rives:
31:23

But and I tell this to people, like, think about your own situation. You want to create content. Why do you wanna create content? Where is your motivation line? Do you just want followers?

Tejal Rives:
31:33

Because if you just want followers, like, I'm not the right person for you to mentor you. And for me, having that, like, north star, having that guiding voice is very important. And I like, my north star is my mom and she passed away when I was very little. But, like, in my head, I'm like, would my mom be proud if I said this thing, if I made this post, if I responded to a person a certain way? Right?

Tejal Rives:
32:00

And not not that, like, I'm snarky. I know I'm snarky sometimes. Like, there are responses that I've given people. Like, my mom wiped out approved, but that person needed that. Like, they deserve that side of your response.

Tejal Rives:
32:11

I try to, like, ensure that, like, I'm doing the things for the right reason. And if I start feeling like I'm just in it for the clicks or I'm just in it for, like, the followers, I'll take a step back and I'll be like, okay. We've gotten too far. We need to reset. We need to, like, figure out why we started and do that.

Tejal Rives:
32:30

Because I can continue creating content every single day and I can have a like, in the next 6 months, I can get a 1,000,000 followers. But is that gonna be the type of followers that I want? Am I losing my individuality? Am I losing Taejal in that whole process? So first things first, I'll tell people, like, know why you're creating content.

Tejal Rives:
32:50

You don't have to create content. And I feel that people, especially in, like, TikTok, YouTube, like, all of our social media world, like, everyone's like, I need to be a content creator. I'm like, you don't need to be a content creator. It is okay to want a 9 to 5 and clock out at the end of the day and go spend time with your family. This job is hard.

Tejal Rives:
33:10

Like, content creation is a hard job, and it's gonna take a lot out of you, and it's gonna burn you out. So I tell people, like, why do you wanna create content? Do you know what your strategy is going to be? Strategies evolve, but, like, do you have a north star? Do you have, like, a guiding voice?

Tejal Rives:
33:27

Something that will bring you back to center. And what is your plan when you start feeling that burnout? Like, the if you don't have a plan of when you start feeling the burnout, it's going to be so easy for you to just, like, take a step back and never come back on. Right? Like, it I've seen that happen to a lot of my friends that started content creation the same time I did.

Tejal Rives:
33:48

Like, they don't create content anymore because they are so burnt out. And I reach out to them. They're like, yeah. Are you okay? I haven't heard from you in a while.

Tejal Rives:
33:55

And they're like when like, it was 2019, I think, right before COVID. And they're like, I'm just so exhausted while I'm, like, the daily content creation. Like, I can't do this anymore. I'm like, totally makes sense. It totally makes sense.

Tejal Rives:
34:08

So have those three things. Like, how about, like, a burnout plan? My burnout plan is I just stop posting for

Rhona Pierce:
34:15

a few days and see where that takes me. And, like, I'll be like, okay. I'll start again. Post a few days a week and see where that takes me. Like, I have, like, a very much of, like, okay, work on everything in the experiment.

Rhona Pierce:
34:27

It's constantly evolving and we're just gonna continue experimenting. And, like, if the experiment fails, that's okay. We start something new. Exactly. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
34:34

And there's so many ways. Like, yes, it's more effective, especially in this day and age, to create content in order to attract candidates and everything, but you also have to take care of yourself. Because as a human, you still have to show up to work. You still have to be those interviews. You still have to be person who who can, like, handle all of the other stress that comes with it.

Rhona Pierce:
34:57

So maybe your burnout plan looks like, look. I won't create content, but I'll talk to my marketing team or my employer branding team or someone else on my team, and we'll sit and we'll brainstorm. And by the way, I've done this. There have been times when I've just been burnt out, but I've sat with someone else on the team and I've been like, look, These are ideas of content I think you could create. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
35:18

And I just spitball ideas and they're like, oh, great. Thanks. And they go and create that content. Look. At the end of the day, you're trying to serve job seekers.

Rhona Pierce:
35:26

You're trying to get them to apply to your roles to know about your company, whether it's from you, whether it's from the company page, whether it's from one of your coworkers. There's different ways of doing it. You don't always have to be on, and you should give yourself permission to take a break. So I love that you included in your tips, have a burnout plan. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
35:49

Because it's real.

Tejal Rives:
35:50

Yeah. Exactly. Not like you know, I'm saying this. Like, people often ask me. They're like, how many candidates do you find by, like, these silly posts that I do?

Tejal Rives:
36:00

Right? Like, my because my hiring managers love the silly posts that I do. Some of them, like, no longer work with me, but still, like, here they're like, hey. I need more traction on this. Like, can you make a post?

Tejal Rives:
36:10

And I've done that. Right? Because they don't like, even though they don't no longer work with me, they're still my customer. And I'll, like, I'll tell them, like, when especially recruiters come through and they're they're like, hey. I can't create the way content the way that you create.

Tejal Rives:
36:23

I'm like, content creation is not about coming up with a idea from scratch every single time. It is not. It's not about that. A lot of the job posts that I've done are inspired by Amy. And I told Amy that.

Tejal Rives:
36:37

Like, first started like, and when I first joined Amazon, I would like when I started talking to her, like, hey. Can I, like, steal this idea? And she's like, girl, go for it. Like, absolutely. Right?

Tejal Rives:
36:46

So that that's, like, you get inspired by other people, and that's where the creative process lies. If you don't get inspired so, like, if I see a one of Amy's posts, I'm like, oh, that's not for me. That's okay because her creative process looks very different than my creative process, which will look very different than your creative process. Right? I could never do a podcast.

Tejal Rives:
37:08

I tried that. It wasn't for me. Right? So it's it's about finding your own creative voice and finding your own creative process. Everyone is creative in different ways.

Tejal Rives:
37:18

And that's what people need to understand that, like, just because Tejal and Rona are doing these two things, doesn't mean you also have to do the the those two things. You can do something completely different. You can start on TikTok. You can start on YouTube. You can start on Instagram, whatever the case may be, and that's okay too.

Tejal Rives:
37:37

There are many different avenues. This is not a piece of pie that you will, you know, that just because I have more, you will get less. That's not how this works. Content creation and followers are not like that. We can all exist in the ecosystem without pairing each other.

Rhona Pierce:
37:52

That's what I love about the content creation community, the recruiter, the TA and HR content creation community, because I have not met a single person in this community that I haven't been able to, like, reach out and ask a question or, like, ask to collaborate or or just anything. And they've always been so open to talk to me. So that's another thing. Like, if you have questions, and I encourage anyone watching or anyone listening, reach out to your favorite content creator in this space. Ask them if they would be willing to partner on a post or something or ask just ask them for for ideas.

Rhona Pierce:
38:30

Really, I the only times I've seen problems or beef is when someone is stealing from someone else, word for word because, I mean, this takes time. I wouldn't want someone to copy word for word something that I've done. And it has happened and I have privately because that's just my style. I have privately told them, please take this down unless you want a public post about it type of thing. But other than that, like, everyone is very welcoming.

Rhona Pierce:
39:00

Everyone is so willing to help. So I encourage other people, like, reach out to us. And you've mentioned a lot of other content creators in this. I think all of them, I've interacted with at some point, and they've all been super nice and willing to help.

Tejal Rives:
39:18

Yeah. And I think you have to realize that the recruiting community is very large, but it's also very small. Like, if you are a jerk to people, people aren't gonna talk about you. And it's not like bitching about you. Right?

Tejal Rives:
39:29

Or we're no no one's gossiping. We're all adults. But, like, people aren't going to say, hey, this person, like, rubs me the wrong way. And, like, 2 other people are saying the same thing. Now we have a trend.

Tejal Rives:
39:40

The trend is that this one person is treating everyone poorly. And you don't wanna be the person that leaves people hurt. Like, you can't, like, be successful if you're needing a wake of bodies in your path. Right? I don't I don't think Mike would have reached out to me just like be part of his panel if I was a jerk to him constantly.

Tejal Rives:
40:01

You'd be like, Mike, what, like, you know, like, well, we we had a beef. Right? Like, so and I'm not the nicest person. I know that I'm not the nicest person. I'm not pizza.

Tejal Rives:
40:09

Not everyone's gonna like me, and I'm okay with that. I'm at a point, like, I have gray hair now. I'm at a point where they're like, listen. I'm not pizza. Not everyone's gonna like me.

Tejal Rives:
40:17

But the people that I want and that I think are good, I want to be liked by them, and I wanna like them. So there are people that I'm like, okay. I could give them a stocky response. Right? I think there was one post.

Tejal Rives:
40:29

I believe you and I, like, disagreed on it, and you approached it so well. And I was like, you know what? She always approaches the conversations with an empathy, but, like, a voice of empathy. And while we had never spoken officially, I was like, she's coming from a place of teaching, not criticize, and I need to take it that way. Because I like you, and you've always been nice to me.

Tejal Rives:
40:48

So I'm like, I'm gonna be nice to And I hope I was nice to

Rhona Pierce:
40:51

Yeah. Yeah. You were.

Tejal Rives:
40:52

But there were other people that were, like, snarky to me in the back. Like, in the past, I'm like, you know what? We're done. Like, we're done with this conversation. I'm done with you being constantly snarky to me.

Tejal Rives:
41:01

Like, I'm gonna be snarky back to you. And I was snarky back to them. Did I burn a bridge in that? Yeah. I did.

Tejal Rives:
41:07

But that was by choice. Right? My friends call it selective tajoless, which is like, I'm I'm a dick to people that I wanna be a dick to people. Sorry. I didn't go and pardon my friend, but I'm a jerk to people that I wanna be a jerk to.

Tejal Rives:
41:19

More often than not, it's like, it's a choice that I make, and it's based on repetitive actions from the people from those people. Right? Like, I'm not gonna do that the first time around. I I have to see that you've done that multiple times to me, to someone else, for in order for me to do that.

Rhona Pierce:
41:36

Exactly. Well, this is a great conversation. I know a lot of people. A lot of the listeners are gonna get a lot of value out of it. So I really appreciate you taking the time to chat, with me.

Rhona Pierce:
41:49

How can people get in contact with you? How can people where can they find you?

Tejal Rives:
41:54

Most active on LinkedIn. I tell people, do not follow me on TikTok unless you wanna know more about me than you're ready for. Right? Right. Like, TikTok is a place where I'm like, I don't just share job search advice or recruiting advice.

Tejal Rives:
42:06

I also share my personal opinions on things in life. And I'm okay with that. I have, made that choice myself. But I tell people, like, don't do not follow me on TikTok unless you're ready or to know about things about me that you are you might not like. Right?

Tejal Rives:
42:22

I'm on Instagram. Caffeinated Careers is my handle everywhere. So, yeah, it's LinkedIn. Mostly on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram. So

Rhona Pierce:
42:32

Perfect. And I also included the links to all of your socials in the show notes. So thanks again so much for this. This is a great conversation.

Tejal Rives:
42:41

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Rhona Pierce:
42:44

And there you have it, folks. Tejal showed us how you can work around limitations imposed by management to advocate for job seekers and influence hiring decisions at every level. As a recruiter, your voice can make a real difference. Make sure your interactions both on and offline are authentic and transparent. You never know who's listening and whose life you're impacting.

Rhona Pierce:
43:10

And don't forget to experiment with your content. It's okay to try, sale and pivot, but you must have a burnout plan. Know when to step back and recharge. For more tips on creating recruiting content, check out episode 15 where Joel Lalji shared the strategy that got him over 500,000 followers and 40,000,000 impressions. The link is in the show notes.

Rhona Pierce:
43:39

Thanks for listening and I'll chat with you next week.