#10: TA's Guide to EEOC's New Harassment Guidance - with Jennifer Laurie

Rhona Pierce:
00:41

Welcome to throw out the playbook, the podcast for recruiters tired of hearing that hiring is broken and ready to do something about it. I'm your host, Rona Pierce. Did you know that a single severe incident of harassment during the hiring process can create legal liability for your company or that the EOC EOC recognizes that harassment can occur based on gender identity or on intersectional identities? The EOC recently released new guidance on workplace harassment, and it's a wake up call for everyone in talent acquisition.

Jennifer Laurie:
01:12

There wasn't sort of like this hard line of this is illegal, this is, you know, discrimination, this is harassment. And so I think there is just kind of like a higher bar and a stronger definition and protection for workers that is new, and and it's like a real shift and departure from the previous guidance.

Rhona Pierce:
01:29

I'll admit, I didn't fully grasp the scope of these issues until I dug into the new guidance. But now I realize, if we're not proactively addressing these risks in our hiring practices, we're not just opening ourselves up to legal trouble. We're also sending a message to candidates that their safety, dignity, and authentic selves are priorities for our organization. And that's a surefire way to lose out on incredible talent. So how do we update our hiring process to prevent, detect, and correct these forms of harassment.

Rhona Pierce:
02:00

Jennifer Laurie joins me to break down the EOC's new guidance and share practical strategies for creating a truly inclusive and compliant hiring experience. Jennifer Zay Shi is the chief people officer at StartUp, a nonprofit organization that supports LGBTQ plus entrepreneurs. Their expertise is in strategic people and culture leadership for mission driven organizations. Jennifer is also the founder of Equitable HR Guild, a collective creating resources on embedding DEI into HR practices and processes. She's committed to creating a more equitable world of work.

Rhona Pierce:
02:36

Let's dive into my conversation with Jen. So I'm super excited to chat with you today. You know, the the EEOC's last major update to guidance was nearly 25 years ago. Why do you think they decided to release this updated guidance now? Like, what's happening in the broader context that brought this to the forefront?

Jennifer Laurie:
02:59

Yeah. I mean, so much has happened, right, in the last 25 years. The concept of work is just completely different than it was 25 years ago. And and so I do think that there's, you know, just like a an air of change. There's a need at a certain point, you do need to refresh these, these guidelines.

Jennifer Laurie:
03:14

But I do think there's also some driving factors that have really motivated these specific changes. First, I would say it's just the reality of remote and hybrid work. So that's brought up new challenges. It also just wasn't really clearly protected. Things like text messages or Slacks or all of that, has not been real clearly covered in the examples or the guidance.

Jennifer Laurie:
03:34

So they just kind of needed to refresh it and bring it into the 21st century, and and update some of those guidelines and what's covered. I think another major reason is, you know, the EEOC is not, law. It's not legally binding in and of itself, but they are interpreting laws, telling us when we need to be paying attention. And so a lot of those, like, legal changes that have happened have been a result of case law. So, big cases that have happened over the last few years, especially, that then, result in a change in how we interpret the law.

Jennifer Laurie:
04:06

So one big example is a recent Supreme Court case, that, essentially now covers gender identity and gender expression in a way that it hasn't been in the past. So the EEOC wants to update their guidance to make sure that that's included. So some things like that have happened, I think, over the especially the last 10 years. And then I think, yeah, again, just sort of like the air of the culture that we live in has changed so much. You know, we've seen a real increase in harassment claims in general, between 2016 2023.

Jennifer Laurie:
04:38

I think about a third of the claims to the EOC were harassment related, which was much higher than it was in the past. And so I think it's not an increase of harassment happening. Right? It's increasing people understanding, having the language, knowing that they are empowered to make a a report of these things. And so as that has grown, I think they just need to better update the protections that go go along that alongside that.

Jennifer Laurie:
05:00

And, specifically, I think even just like movements like Me Too, Black Lives Matter, you know, it brought these, kind of like workplace, ethics questions and sort of, yeah, concerns and just cases even of harassment that have existed that people didn't know about more into kind of the public awareness. And so I think that's just driven, demand really for accountability from employers and better protections. And I think the EOC is, you know, coming up and wanting to be, you know, a better again protector enforcer of the law, better protect individuals against harassment, discrimination, just to kind of keep up with public awareness and demand, really.

Rhona Pierce:
05:39

Yeah. And that's a good thing. I I think that's what they should be doing Yes. Keeping up with things. So before we dive in to, like, the details of the new guidance, I'm curious to know why does this topic and just inclusive hiring and inclusivity of work in general matter so much to you on a personal level?

Jennifer Laurie:
06:01

Sure. I think it's always mattered to me. Like, I just I really care a lot about creating equitable spaces, equitable workplaces, But I think there have been instances, there's kind of a season in my life that I think really kind of, like, cranked up the passion for that a little bit. I've worked in some really discriminatory, hostile, unsafe workplaces. And, for a while, I was working in restaurants, which sort of have a reputation for not being the most positive, safe, of workplaces.

Jennifer Laurie:
06:30

And I was consulting for a small restaurant that was having kind of toxic workplace issues. They weren't able to quite pin down what was going on. Very quickly in my consulting engagement with them, I realized that the hiring manager was discriminating in the hiring process, was only bringing on, Asian employees or Asian candidates specifically and women, and then was engaging in quid pro quo, so offering them, employment in exchange for sexual favors. He was, of course, fired, but it also just, you know, made me realize it's not just one person. There's this culture of this.

Jennifer Laurie:
07:04

It's really affecting the existing employees. And you know, I'd always known that workplaces could be harmful, but seeing sort of that level of exploitation and just, yeah, harm and damage that was done, I think it just kind of, like, again, took my my passion for it up kind of a level. And and so, yeah, I've been very committed to it. That was really a turning point for me.

Rhona Pierce:
07:26

Yeah. So many people don't know, but, like, working in HR and working in TA, really, there's these pivotal moments that change you. I think all of us can look back and be like, this is where I became this person because of usually something that you saw.

Jennifer Laurie:
07:43

Yes.

Rhona Pierce:
07:44

Exactly. Can you give us a high level overview of what's included in the new EOC guidance on workplace harassment? Sure.

Jennifer Laurie:
07:54

So, I mean, there's a lot. There's it's it's very long. I've read it through it a couple times, but it's very dense. There's a lot of new definitions. There's, I think, about 70 examples of harassment, some new examples that are very particular, and just kind of specific guidance for employers as well.

Jennifer Laurie:
08:10

But I would say one of the high level shifts is the guidance sort of broadens the scope of what is considered harassment. And it also has included kind of more of a range of the types of harassment that are explicitly included. So there's some identities like gender identity, gender expression, that haven't been clearly protected in the in the past, and that's now included. Again, very, like, explicitly covered. So I think that's a big difference is it's just getting a little bit more expansive and covering more specific things.

Jennifer Laurie:
08:38

And then I think another big shift is it sort of is like codifying some things that we've seen happen over the last decade or 2. You know, instances where the EEOC even has ruled that things are harassment or discrimination, but it wasn't really like they didn't take a clear stance on it, and so I don't think employers took it as seriously. There wasn't sort of, like, this hard line of this is illegal. This is, you know, discrimination. This is harassment.

Jennifer Laurie:
09:03

And so I think there is just kind of, like, a higher bar and a stronger, yeah, definition and protection for workers that is new, and and it's like a real shift and departure from the previous guidance.

Rhona Pierce:
09:16

So this most of the people who listen to this podcast are talent acquisition professionals. What do you think are the most significant changes or updates to the guidance, that talent acquisition professionals need to be aware of?

Jennifer Laurie:
09:33

Yeah. I think there's a few that especially come up sort of in the hiring process, and are relevant for talent acquisition professionals. 1 is, again, this is one of the big kind of headline ones that have come out is the inclusion of gender identity and gender expression as protected categories. So, again, that's as a result of recent Supreme Court decision. And it just is some pretty significant new protections for LGBTQ plus individuals.

Jennifer Laurie:
09:59

And I think there's some real, yeah, like, action items that people can take to better protect those individuals in the hiring process. So So that's a really big one. I think intersectional harassment is another big one that is, again, explicitly addressed for the first time, and named using the word intersectionality, which is huge. So, again, this has come up in the past, but really protecting people on that basis, when there's an intersection between multiple identities or intersections of their identity. Another big one is single instances.

Jennifer Laurie:
10:32

So if there's something really severe that happens, it can be considered just harassment in and of itself, and creates a hostile work environment on its own. So just being mindful of those things that happen in the hiring process. And I think the biggest thing for talent acquisition professionals is, like, knowing to respond to them, to flag them, to take them seriously when they do happen. That's really big as well. I think, yeah, the responding piece is is huge, like, making sure that you take seriously when you even, like, witness harassment or someone that could be considered harassment or if someone reports it to you.

Jennifer Laurie:
11:07

There's a lot of increased kind of standards and guidance for employers on their liability to respond, when these things do happen.

Rhona Pierce:
11:15

Yeah. That's that's something big. I read through it as much as I could. I also used, AI to help me read through the guidance. It's very dense as you mentioned.

Rhona Pierce:
11:27

But one of the things that really stuck out to me as someone who's been in TA for so long is the single instance harassment. Because I know I've worked with people where it's like, well, it just happened this one time because we have such few interactions with candidates. But the fact that if it's big enough, a single instant is considered harassment, I think, is something that TA teams really need to to be mindful and aware of. So, as you've mentioned, one of the major updates is the protection for gender identity and expression. Can you break down what that means in practice?

Jennifer Laurie:
12:05

Sure. So, you know, gender identity and expression is very expansive, and it can mean a lot of different things. So, you know, one thing that it means is the actual identity of being transgender or non binary, you know, that actual identity that you hold related to your gender. It can also be things like how someone dresses, their pronouns, their chosen name, the way that they speak even, and, like, their mannerisms, whether they dress or present. And so, again, it kind of impacts a lot about the way that people show up in in the hiring process or in the workplace, and how they present themselves.

Jennifer Laurie:
12:41

The the protection itself is is basically allowing people to exist in the the gender identity and expression that they choose, and be respected. So having their chosen name and pronouns respected, being able to choose which restroom they would like to use, just being able to exist in their identity without being harassed or, you know, like, teased or getting a lot of comments or disrespect, from, you know, employers or other other, colleagues.

Rhona Pierce:
13:08

How could TA professionals make sure that they're being inclusive and respectful all gender identities in the hiring process?

Jennifer Laurie:
13:18

Yeah. I think there's some really tactical things that you can do. I think one that's just sort of general is just recognizing gender identity. So if someone shares their pronouns with you or says, you know, hey. I'm I identify as non binary.

Jennifer Laurie:
13:31

Just, like, affirming that, sort of respecting that, not creating any new, like, obstacles or even just treating them differently. Just having that be again just, like, a part of a candidate's profile and what you know about someone that's introduced themselves to you. So I think just kind of recognizing respecting folks' gender identity is really big. Something that's kinda more specific is name and pronoun use, which I think is really, really impactful and actually fairly easy to implement. So, you know, asking for candidates chosen name instead of their legal name or you both if you need their legal name, You know, asking for their pronouns and then sharing that information, both name and pronouns, with folks who are involved in the hiring process.

Jennifer Laurie:
14:12

So anyone on the hiring panel, anyone who's involved, making sure that they know to respect them as well. And I also really like, training hiring teams to start with introductions and include their pronouns. So just kind of begin normalizing pronoun use, inviting candidates to share their pronouns in the in the context. Some people's pronouns change, like, between the time that they applied and the day that they're interviewing. So, again, just giving people the opportunity to introduce themselves and be, you know, and then be respected.

Jennifer Laurie:
14:41

Alongside that, I would say training as well is big. So, making sure, again, that everyone on the team understands gender identity and gender expression, They know how to kind of navigate that, how to use pronouns, how to navigate if someone discloses that they're trans or transitioning. Even, like, someone asks about bathroom use or what bathrooms are available. Just that people kind of are comfortable navigating that if they're part of the hiring process, I think is big big as well. And then one specific thing, this might not be in the TA space, but if you have any, like, yeah, any sort of sway into this is just making sure that your employer updates their anti harassment and discrimination policies to really explicitly include gender identity and gender expression.

Jennifer Laurie:
15:24

So even if you have, like, on your hiring page, like, an EEOC statement or something like that, just making sure that that's that's included as well.

Rhona Pierce:
15:31

Yeah. The the training is big, and I think the training is is big for TA teams themselves, but also for hiring managers and hiring teams. So anyone involved in the hiring process. Because again and I wanna stress this, the single instance harassment, we don't want harassment in any way. Right.

Rhona Pierce:
15:49

But the single instance harassment is is a big thing that you have to be mindful of because there's so many people involved in the process that don't necessarily get formal training. We know how this works. Right. It would be ideal if everyone on every hiring panel is trained. This is something where this can help you make the case for that training because this is important.

Jennifer Laurie:
16:11

Right. Agreed.

Rhona Pierce:
16:12

Yep. The the concept of intersectionality is now recognized in the guidance as you said. Can you explain, like, what that term means and why it's significant?

Jennifer Laurie:
16:24

Sure. This is so fun because, actually, the this all started with an EEOC hiring claim. So, in the seventies, I believe, there was a case where there was a black woman, her name was Emma DeGraffenreid, and she was applying for a job at General Motors and wasn't hired and sort of started to suspect discrimination, noticed that not other not a lot of black women were being hired at General Motors and filed an EEOC claim. And, the EEOC ended up affirming, yes, there was harassment, discrimination happening here, and giving her sort of the right to sue. She filed a lawsuit and, ultimately, it was dismissed because they said, well, we hire black people, they were all men, and then we hire white, or we hire women, but they're all white.

Jennifer Laurie:
17:07

And they refuse to acknowledge this intersection. Right? So, it's a really interesting case. And someone named doctor Kimberly Crenshaw was researching this case and saw this kind of effect happening and came up with the concept of intersectionality. And so it's just really interesting to see it kind of come full circle now.

Jennifer Laurie:
17:25

That is, I think, really the impetus for adding, especially the language of intersectionality and recognizing that impact, in the new guidance. But, yeah, it essentially just means that, you know, people's identities intersect and sometimes create more discrimination or people harass them on the basis of that intersection, not just, again, being black or being a woman, but being a black woman. Or, you know, being, Asian and being disabled, but being Asian and disabled, you know, at the same time in those intersections that happen. So it's really significant, I think, to include that, and sort of a new, like, lens on harassment and discrimination that just hasn't been kind of, like, normalized up to this point.

Rhona Pierce:
18:07

That's so interesting. I didn't know the the backstory on this and that it started. So it it's very interesting to see it come full circle, like like you mentioned. How does the guidance suggest that employers approach situations where harassment is based on, like, multiple intersecting identities?

Jennifer Laurie:
18:28

I'll say kind of the same thing that I said around gender identity, which is, like, recognition of it. So just recognizing that overlapping identities, can affect the way that harassment shows up, affects people's even, experience of harassment. So, again, training, like, making sure that people understand what that really means, what that looks like, how it can show up so that then if, again, you witness it or you see something happening, you're able to identify it and have the language to speak about it. So I think that's that's really big. And then also just, having policies again, like, I would include it in your in your anti harassment, anti discrimination policy, specifically protecting people, who have are on the basis of multiple and intersecting identities.

Jennifer Laurie:
19:11

So, yeah, those practices the same. I think one thing for TA professionals in particular that is really helpful is also just making sure you're assessing your hiring data intersectionally. So you might think, like, oh, we're doing a great job equitably hiring because we're looking at it on gender and race and disability. But then when you start looking at it intersectionally, you realize, like, oh, we don't hire people of color who are disabled, or, you know, whatever the intersection may be. So looking at your data kind of throughout the process in an intersectional way, I think is another thing, that I recommend those too.

Rhona Pierce:
19:40

That's a that's a really good call out because it's true. And I've seen it many times Whereas a hiring team, you look at the data and you're like, oh, we're doing great. But, yeah, now that this is a good lens to look at things through because you might be doing good, but not really.

Jennifer Laurie:
19:57

Right. Right. Yeah. And even I think it's a lens for, like, again, identifying when harassment exists because you, again, you might not see, like, race based, you know, harassment or discrimination. You're just looking for it through that lens.

Jennifer Laurie:
20:09

But when you start to broaden it and look at these intersections and overlapping identities, you're like, oh, this is actually identity based harassment. So I think, as you said, it's like a really helpful new perspective, new lens, to bring bring to it.

Rhona Pierce:
20:22

So now I wanna touch a little, and we've spoken about it a lot throughout the conversation about the single instance of harassment. So the new guidance clarifies that a single severe incident of harassment can create liability. Can you really explain, like, what that means and why it's so different or departure from previous guidance?

Jennifer Laurie:
20:45

Mhmm. Yeah. So it's definitely a departure from the former EEOC guidance and that the the language there was that it needs to be pervasive, it needs to be repeated, harassment in order to constitute a hostile work environment. So that's kind of like the bar for illegal harassment. And I will say again that there have been cases, you know, over the years before this guidance was updated where there was a severe single instance that was considered illegal or maybe even sometimes harassment, things like sexual assault, you know, where it's, like, very clearly an illegal activity.

Jennifer Laurie:
21:16

But it actually wasn't really clearly harassment. And so it is just kind of this this distinction and and, yeah, new bar that I think is set where, something can be so severe. I think it's really a recognition of the impact that some instances can have and really shifting the environment, creating, a place that people don't feel safe working. It doesn't need to be something that happens over and over again. It can be sometimes a really egregious comment or action, that really, again, just shifts things and makes it feel unsafe and hostile for folks.

Jennifer Laurie:
21:48

So, yeah, I think it's a new it's kind of a new, again, line in the sand that creates a real standard for how we think about what's considered harassment and what's not.

Rhona Pierce:
21:57

What are some examples of single acts that the EUOC said could potentially be severe enough to create a hostile work environment on their own.

Jennifer Laurie:
22:09

Yep. So sexual harassment not sexual harassment necessarily even, but sexual assault, sexual touching, quid pro quo, which I mentioned earlier as well. Any of those would be considered kind of significant enough or severe enough to be a single, you know, instance and create a hostile work environment. Threats of violence as well. So, or, of course, like, actual violence and actual assault.

Jennifer Laurie:
22:35

And then racial slurs and kind of like hateful symbols. So, you know, any, like, really explicit comments made to someone or displayed even, could be considered that as well. And it's interesting because, like, when I think about that list at first, I was like, this might not show up in the TA space. Like, these seem really extreme. But I actually I started thinking back on some of my past experiences.

Jennifer Laurie:
22:57

Like, I have seen, yeah, the quid pro quo. I have seen someone be sexually assaulted in an interview setting. I have seen someone use a slur in an interview setting and that person felt, yeah, really unsafe and, and did not wanna work there anymore. And so it does it does happen. I think it's hopefully not happening as often, but it it does, and it's something to get be really aware of.

Rhona Pierce:
23:22

Yeah. I I had kind of a similar reaction as well. Like, well, this is really how is it really gonna present itself? But I just thinking back on things that I've seen, all the examples that you mentioned, but I don't know if this would constitute, but I would think from my interpretation, it would. But I worked at a place where we had a situation where an interviewer, just started displaying image like, share their screen and started displaying images of monkeys Mhmm.

Jennifer Laurie:
23:49

To

Rhona Pierce:
23:50

a black person.

Jennifer Laurie:
23:52

I think it would. So it's yeah, because it's definitely considered harassment. One of the examples is around that type of imagery. I think it probably would, especially in interview setting where there's, like they talk a little bit too about, like, power, the impact of power in some of these situations. So I think it probably would.

Jennifer Laurie:
24:08

Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
24:09

Yeah. So

Jennifer Laurie:
24:09

Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
24:10

A lot to to think about and consider and train your teams on.

Jennifer Laurie:
24:16

Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
24:16

So what do you think are the most important things for employers to do right now to align their hiring process with these new guidance?

Jennifer Laurie:
24:27

I would say updating again your policies, making sure that there's protection against harassment based on gender identity, based on gender expression, and intersectional, harassment. Even also probably like a single instance, you might wanna give some examples in what the harassment constitutes harassment in your workplace. And so just including some of those examples in it, I think, is really critical. Of course, and then making sure people are trained on that, making sure anyone who's involved in, like, a hiring process understands those things are considered harassment, and what the consequences are of that. I think that's really big.

Jennifer Laurie:
25:01

As I mentioned too, there's just a lot around employer responsibility. So there is really clear guidance on an employer's responsibility and liability, related to responding to harassment. So making sure that you have reporting mechanisms, you give people sort of, like, multiple avenues for reporting, but there's confidentiality, and then clear guidance on what the process is from there, like, the accountability that comes from there. So I think that's that's big too. I would even say, like, including that for candidates, like giving candidates an option for how to report if they experience harassment, and again, some sort of a brief policy on how to do that options for how they can do that.

Jennifer Laurie:
25:42

I I think standardizing interview questions, making sure that people are not asking inappropriate questions about someone who's transitioning or, pregnancy is another thing that comes up in this guidance. Making sure that people aren't asking questions about pregnancy or making comments about someone's choice, those types of things. And yeah. And just even making comments, reactions. So making sure that your your interview teams know what's appropriate and what is not, obviously, beyond just what's harassment and what's not.

Jennifer Laurie:
26:08

But, I think there's some real clear, again, like, lines that are drawn here that it's helpful to make sure people understand.

Rhona Pierce:
26:14

And I was also thinking because earlier today, actually, I was part of a, mastermind that you were leading, and you mentioned something that really stood out to me. When folks are transitioning, you don't necessarily have to ask for their legal name. You can ask for their chosen name. And some if you need both names, you can ask for them. As TA teams, you don't necessarily have to share all of that information with the rest of the interview team.

Rhona Pierce:
26:44

You can just share folks' chosen name. Right. So things like being mindful of things like that, because I would think that the person's legal name would fall under confidentiality type of things.

Jennifer Laurie:
26:57

Right. And it probably comes up, you know, at some point, you'll need someone's legal name if they're hired on, you know, all that, or you may wanna get it even in the hiring process. But, yeah, again, just thinking about, how am I respecting this person's identity, the information they've shared with them with me. You know, name is really important for people who are transitioning or even just, like, going through kind of gender exploration process, and, again, pronouns that can shift over time. So just being receptive, like, responsive to it when people share that information with you, making sure that it's respected throughout the process.

Jennifer Laurie:
27:27

And, yes, so you only share what's necessary and relevant for the hiring team.

Rhona Pierce:
27:32

So if listeners take away one key message or action item from this new guidance, what do you think it should be?

Jennifer Laurie:
27:39

I think it's just a great opportunity to prioritize and advocate for more inclusive, respectful, safer Harassment claims are really expensive and hard to deal with, and we don't wanna be dealing with that. Like, let's put some of these things in place to make sure that we're protecting people proactively instead of, you know, just reactively. So I would say just, you know, take the time to think about this guidance, think about some of these things, how you can incorporate more intentionality in your training and your practices, and and use it as an opportunity to make some change.

Rhona Pierce:
28:21

Yeah. And and I like how you mentioned using this to take the opportunity to speak to leadership about it. In this podcast, we speak about a lot about how to speak the language of leadership to get the things that we need to do our job. And I think this is a great opportunity because now it's not just something that the TA team or HR is wanting to do Right. And that people are asking for.

Rhona Pierce:
28:49

It's like, no, they can't there can be legal repercussions and a lot of money Mhmm. If these things aren't done.

Jennifer Laurie:
28:56

Yes. Nobody wants an EEOC claim against them. Like, they're usually public. It's, yeah, it's a whole thing. So, again, like, just changing some of your practices, investing a little bit of time, maybe a little bit of money, these things, again, can be just, like, added on to your existing practices.

Jennifer Laurie:
29:09

It's it's definitely the way to go. Yeah. Any

Rhona Pierce:
29:14

final thoughts or anything that you want to share about the guidance or, inclusive hiring in general with listeners?

Jennifer Laurie:
29:23

I don't think so. I think we've covered covered most everything. Yeah. Again, I think it's there's some really helpful new callouts and new, sort of standards that are brought up in this guidance. But the biggest thing is just thinking about how can we continue to expand, how inclusive and equitable we are in our practices.

Jennifer Laurie:
29:40

So take the opportunity. Use this guidance as just one more kind of, like, lens or one more sort of a checklist that you can add in. And and don't think it's don't think of it too much just like compliance and another another, duty that you have. Think of it really as an opportunity to to make some positive change.

Rhona Pierce:
29:58

I like that framing. How can folks get in contact with you if they want to follow along?

Jennifer Laurie:
30:06

The best way is LinkedIn. So I'm on LinkedIn, Jennifer Lohrey. And, yeah, would love for you to connect with me there. I also run, Equitable HR Guild, which is, a collective of kind of resources and educational materials on embedding equity and inclusion into HR practices. So feel free to follow along on that as well.

Jennifer Laurie:
30:26

But, yeah, don't hesitate to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Always happy to chat with us.

Rhona Pierce:
30:31

And I'm going to call out here. Jen shares incredible information on LinkedIn. I love all of your posts because I know every time I read one, I learn something new. It's like, oh, I hadn't thought about it that way.

Jennifer Laurie:
30:44

Thank you. I love that. I always am trying to think like, yeah, how can this be actually helpful and actionable? So I love I love that's been your experience. Thank you.

Rhona Pierce:
30:53

All of your posts are incredibly actionable and, like, I immediately can think of, oh, I should change the way I've been doing x y z thing. Let's talk. Let's let's see how to improve things. So

Jennifer Laurie:
31:07

I love it. Thank you.

Rhona Pierce:
31:08

Very grateful for that. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. This has been a great conversation, and I can't wait to share it with everyone.

Jennifer Laurie:
31:17

Thank you so much. Really appreciate the conversation.

Rhona Pierce:
31:20

Wow. What an eye opening conversation with Jen. From the explicit protections for gender identity and expression to the recognition of intersectional harassment and the liability for single severe incidents. It's clear that this guidance is something all of us in TA should be familiar with. As Jen emphasized, this is a crucial opportunity for us to prioritize and advocate for more inclusive, respectful, and safer hiring practices.

Rhona Pierce:
31:48

It's not just about compliance or avoiding legal trouble. It's about creating workplaces where every candidate and employee feels valued, respected, and empowered to bring their whole selves to work. So let's take this guidance as a call to action. Let's update our policies, train our teams, standardize our interview questions, and give candidates clear avenues for reporting harassment. Let's look at our hiring data through an intersectional lens lens and identify where we might be falling short, and let's use this moment to push for real change in our organizations from the top down.

Rhona Pierce:
32:24

As talent acquisition professionals, we have the power to shape the future of work. So let's seize this opportunity to create hiring processes that truly reflect our values of diversity, equity, and inclusion. Because when we get this right, everyone wins. Thanks again to Jennifer Laurie for sharing their insights and expertise. Be sure to connect with her on LinkedIn and check out the Equitable HR Guild.

Rhona Pierce:
32:49

The links are in the show notes. If you wanna learn more about equitable hiring, check out episode 9, where I spoke to Tara TerKeynes about how to implement diversity hiring and how to measure the success of your DEI efforts.