#8: Recruiting Solo: How to Do More with Less with Sean Page

Rhona Pierce:
00:00

When you're a recruiting team of 1, every decision counts. How do you make the most of your time and resources?

Sean Page:
00:06

I just think that, like, a lot of times, we need to be selfish of our time as recruiters. You have to set boundaries for yourself, in terms of your your work and sometimes it's saying no to certain things or, like, saying not now to certain things.

Rhona Pierce:
00:17

That's Sean Page, a senior technical recruiter who knows firsthand the challenges of recruiting in a resource constrained environment. As the sole recruiter at Propel, a mission driven company, Sean has had to get creative to make the most of his time and resources. In this episode, Sean shares his strategies for leveraging tools and technology to streamline processes, prioritizing tasks, and focusing on high impact activities, and communicating effectively with stakeholders to get buy in and support.

Sean Page:
00:48

You know, part of our job is building long term relationships. It's not always the immediate roles, and so it's really explained to hiring managers the why behind in what I'm doing and really getting their buy in and, like, really trying to get them to understand that, see, look, I've already built a social media presence. Like, you see the type of candidates I'm attracting, like, you should do it too.

Rhona Pierce:
01:06

Welcome to throw out the playbook, the podcast for recruiters tired of hearing that hiring is broken and ready to do something about it. I'm your host, Rhona Pierce. Whether you're a team of 1 or part of a larger recruiting organization, Sean's insights and practical tips will help you navigate the challenges of recruiting in a resource constrained environment. Sean's approach is all about working smarter, not harder. But first, let's hear about how Sean got started in talent acquisition.

Sean Page:
01:36

I actually had a pretty nontraditional path as a recruiter, which I'm I'm sure a lot of people are listening kinda have that same type of story. But I really started my journey, at the very beginning, working for a union. So I actually worked for the postal workers union, as a social media manager. So that was my very first job out of college. And then from there, I actually moved my way up to being, the executive assistant to the director of industrial relations.

Sean Page:
02:02

And so that was, like, my first crash course into, like, particular cases when it comes to, like, contract negotiations and, different, like, disputes that, postal workers were having with management. So that was really exciting, kind of my first, like, viewpoint into the workplace. And then from there, I moved into public health. And so that was actually my first, like, window into HR. And so I was there doing training and development, but specifically for public health preparedness response.

Sean Page:
02:30

So I did a lot of cool things around, Ebola and Zika, trainings. And then from there, I went into, the hurricane relief efforts, with, hurricane Maria and, Puerto Rico and US Virgin Islands. And then, I kinda wrapped up my time there, doing, dealing with the opioid epidemic. So I was doing a lot of work there. And then after that, actually, on the side, I was also working for my friend's start up, called Lexi Grandma, which is a resume writing company.

Sean Page:
02:58

And so I was kinda working both jobs, kinda getting a window into HR. And so then finally, I decided, you know what? I just wanna go all in into HR, like but I also wanna still do, work that's, like, really mission driven. And so I decided to go into recruitment, because I just, identified there was a need for, just black recruiters and tech and, like, just this need for, a lot of DNI training and development opportunities. And so, that was sort of my first, step into the recruitment space.

Sean Page:
03:26

And so I worked for a company called Webflow, which at the time, I was around employee a 100. So they were kind of a really small but fast growing start up. And so that was really where I got my feet wet, and I sort of was on a team of 2. And and then by the time I left, we were a team of 14. We had over 450 employees, and so that was, like, a really crazy ride for 2 years.

Sean Page:
03:47

And so I did that, and now I'm at a company called Propel. I've been there for the last 3 years. We focus on building software for low income Americans. So still mission driven, but I'm a team of 1 right now. So still recruitment.

Sean Page:
03:59

I'm doing recruitment, but I also too, doing a little bit of HR business like I work as well.

Rhona Pierce:
04:05

Amazing. And that's such a interesting background. I guess I didn't know about this. So I've connected with you. We've been connected on Twitter for years and obviously LinkedIn.

Rhona Pierce:
04:15

I guess I didn't know you had worked in public health. That is so interesting. So you've done a lot. And it's probably why I'm talking to you today, because you're used to doing a lot with little resources. How can you share examples of how you've leveraged data and metrics to, like, improve your productivity and make better recruiting decisions?

Sean Page:
04:43

Yeah. That's a really great question. So I think before I kinda dive into your question, I think one of the first things is really building the foundations to really understand data and metrics. And so what I did was actually I, did a project management certification, and that was really my first, like, window into really understanding how do you use, data and metrics to leverage better processes. Because I really wanted to understand, like, you know, not just, like, how do you create a process, but, like, also to how do you maintain it?

Sean Page:
05:09

How do you make it more efficient? Things of that nature. And so a lot of times people don't understand this. Recruiters are actually one of the best project managers you have at your company. They're building out processes.

Sean Page:
05:19

Like you mentioned, we're looking at metrics. We're managing processes across multiple departments. Like, we really have a window into how your business works. And so, just going into your actual question, the way I leverage data is really, running on reports in Greenhouse, which is our ATS system. And so oftentimes, you know, I'm kind of a balance between, you know, analytical, but also I really you know, as a, people person, I care about the heart as well.

Sean Page:
05:44

And so, the way that I leverage data is really to identify gaps, in our system. So, you know, a lot of times when we're opening up a role, you know, we're really optimistic. We're like, oh, okay. We're gonna hit the ground running. We're gonna hopefully make this higher within 45 days.

Sean Page:
05:57

Like, you know, all sunshine and rainbows. But we know that often in TA, that's not always the case. Sometimes we really have really rigid requirements for what we're looking for. And so oftentimes, I'm checking in. My first data point that I'm looking at is, like, time to hire.

Sean Page:
06:13

So looking at, like, time to hire and time to fill. And so by the when we open up that role, that's what I'm tracking. And so I'm having those constant conversations. And oftentimes for me, I look at that data, like, every 2 to 3 weeks where I'm, like, saying, okay. Like, how are we progressing?

Sean Page:
06:27

Are we getting the right candidates? Are they going far enough in our process? Are we learning a lot, from these candidates? And so leveraging data in that way, but even deeper running greenhouse reports to really understand what the funnel looks like and where our gaps are. So oftentimes, I'm looking at, you know, for instance, like, our pass through rates.

Sean Page:
06:44

So, you know, for me as a recruiter, like, you know, it's a bad sign if, you know, my pass through rate is, like, less than 50%. Like, there's some disconnect that I'm having with the hiring manager that I'm not really understanding the role. And so that's my point to kind of touch in with the hiring manager to understand that. Or going down the funnel, like, looking at things like tech screens and being like, hey. Like, you know, do we want a text screen that, like, we're getting a pass rate of 10%?

Sean Page:
07:06

Like, you know, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that's a bad thing, but we should talk about that. Right? And so sometimes it's, like, also being inquisitive and, like, really understanding, like, you know, is this the right track that we're going down? And if it's not, like, how can we pivot?

Sean Page:
07:19

Because I think oftentimes that's if you don't pivot, you end up creating, like, really long hiring processes that go on for months months months. And then you have angry candidates that are on calls being like, I saw this role has been open for 9 months. Like, why are you still looking for that person? And so I think that's why it's important to, like, really leverage data because it makes a better candidate experience, but also too allows you to be, curious, allows you to really identify gaps in the process. And then finally, also allows you to really showcase your own knowledge and your strategic, sense as a TA leader.

Rhona Pierce:
07:52

Yes. And I've often said it just like you, project management. I have a project management background, and I've always said that project management really is the one skill that has helped me in every single job, every single pivot that I've done, especially in recruiting because we juggle so much. We juggle Mhmm. The process, the candidates, the hiring manager, the external things when you have to, like, just everything so much and just staying organized and being able to look at data and look at the right data, like you said, and point yourself in the direction that you need to be going and fix the things that you need to be fixing.

Sean Page:
08:35

Exactly. Exactly.

Rhona Pierce:
08:37

Yeah. And so let's talk a little about what I know you like and what I like too, which is positive candidate experiences. So can you tell me of a time when you went above and beyond to create a positive candidate experience even when you were having to work quickly, which is always to fill a role?

Sean Page:
09:01

Yeah. That's a really great question. So I was really thinking deeply about this one because I think oftentimes in research trapped environments, you don't have the flashy things that the Facebooks or the Googles can pull out where you can like, oh, I'm gonna fly out a candidate for a final round, or, oh, I'm gonna send them, like, a, you know, a $100 gift, as a as a, you know, sort of thank you for going through our process. You know, we don't have those type of resources. And so oftentimes, for me, it's going back to the first principles, which is really just this, designing a delightful candidate experience.

Sean Page:
09:31

And that starts with just really listening to the candidate, really understanding their needs, and really approaching building that relationship. And so one time that I did that, there was a female engineer on our team today, that in the past, actually went through our interview process twice. The first time, she actually made it to the offer stage, and I was really excited. And during that process, I kept talking and checking in with her because I wanted to, 1, really close her, but more so I really wanted to understand what her needs were, like, what she looking for. And what kept coming up in our conversations was work life balance.

Sean Page:
10:05

And so I kept trying to sell, like, our benefits and, like, kept, you know, bringing people on the team to talk about, like, our ability to, like, work remotely and how that's in your lives and things of that nature. But then I realized as we were getting to the offer process, she was like it was not just she wanted work life balance. She was actually burnt out. And so I didn't realize that until I kept digging and having more conversations. And she got comfortable enough with me to really disclose, like, hey.

Sean Page:
10:29

I'm actually burnt out in my current job. Like, I'm not sure if I'm ready to go back into engineering or if I wanna go down a different path. And so I told her, hey. Like, look. You know, we're really excited about you.

Sean Page:
10:41

You know, I know that they wanted to give you a offer. Like, we'll still give you the offer, but, like, sit on it. Like, you know, let's take a week. Like, let's have some conversation with the people and see if this is the right timing. And so when we did that, you know, we came to the realization that, like, she was like, hey.

Sean Page:
10:56

Actually, you know, I'm gonna take some time off. I I wanna travel. I don't think this is the right time. And, you know, hey. We took the shot.

Sean Page:
11:04

You know? Sometimes you don't always get your offer accept accepted, but I learned a lot from that process. And so for me, like, after that, I kept, like, checking in on her. And so she mentioned to me she was going to Thailand for 6 months. And so I was like, oh, okay.

Sean Page:
11:17

Cool. So I went to my CRM. I put the date, like, go back and, like, you know you know, send out her another message, when she gets back. And so the 6 months happened. You know, we happen to still be hiring, for more full stack engineers.

Sean Page:
11:31

And so I was like, you know and we also recently, I hired a new engineering manager. And And so I was like, you know, he on his team, he was looking for a particular type of engineer, and she came to mind. I was like, she's perfect for this. Like, we're gonna do this. And so I actually reached out to her when she came back on her trip.

Sean Page:
11:48

And she's like, wow. Like, it's so funny that you reach out to me because I was actually thinking about, you know, Propel, and I was thinking about the company and how I had such a great process with you. And so we chatted again, and I was like, hey. Like, look. Like, understand last time, like, you're feeling burnt out.

Sean Page:
12:01

Like, you know, be honest with me. Are you still feeling that way? Like, where are you at in your life? And she's like, look. Like, honestly, I need to buy a house right now.

Sean Page:
12:08

Like, I need to, like, get back into the workplace. Like, we need to, like, get this together. And I said, okay. Cool. And I said, well, I have this new hiring, engineering manager that I think you will like.

Sean Page:
12:17

I think you should have this conversation with them. And if it's a mutual fit, like, let's move forward. And so luckily, because I've already built that relationship, she didn't even have to go through a full interview process because it was not that far off where it was like, you know, enough enough time did not pass where we're like, we felt comfortable in her technical abilities. We felt like she was a good cultural fit. And so after that conversation, with the hiring manager, we decided to make the offer.

Sean Page:
12:43

And so I actually closed that was the fastest time I closed to In There, and that was in 7 days. Literally from that initial conversation of reaching out to her having that conversation with the manager and then us deciding to make the offer again. And then obviously, she accepted. And so it was a really great, just experience for both of us because it really showcased that and highlight why relationship building is so important and crucial to making a delightful experience for, candidates. And to me, that's going above and beyond.

Sean Page:
13:09

You know, a lot of times we allow people to just fall through the cracks in our CRMs and not say anything, or, you know, they're not a great fit. So like, let's just forget about them. And I think that's just an important lesson to me that sometimes it's worth it to, like, build that relationship.

Rhona Pierce:
13:24

Yes. And I love that story for so many reasons. You've mentioned having other people from the team talk to someone, to the candidate, and meet them where they're at, answer the questions, and they're, like, concerns that they might have. You also mentioned my favorite thing, which is I think comes from being a project manager. Setting a reminder for yourself of when to check-in with the person because you've spent the time, you found someone that was a great fit, it wasn't the time for it, that doesn't mean that 6 months, a year, 2 years later, you that person won't be a fit.

Rhona Pierce:
14:05

And, look, your your search that second time around was 7 days. That I love stories like this and how you leverage your tools, your team, just your organizational skills, because lots of people get overwhelmed. It's like, oh, we have all these candidates, it's just easier to start over, I can't be digging through the CRM. I love how you leverage simple things that almost every ATS I've used has, which is a reminder. And if your ATS doesn't have it, put it on your calendar.

Sean Page:
14:39

Exactly. Exactly. And I think also too part of it as well is, like, people I think sometimes, like, you mentioned getting overwhelmed and, like, you're just like, oh my god. There's so many things going at you at once. And I think for me, it's, like, our job is to create structure out of chaos.

Sean Page:
14:54

And so sometimes, like, when other people are freaking out on my team, if that's the time when I get into my mode of, like, hey. I have to stay calm, and I have to just get through this. And, like, yes. I might be freaking out on the inside. But, like, at this point, it's like, I've seen it a a lot of different things happen.

Sean Page:
15:08

And I think over time, as you get more experience as a recruiter, you realize that things are always there's gonna be so much things out of your control, and all you can do there are the things in your control. And, like, project management is one of those things that you can help hold in and be able to have control over your environment and be able to have control over how you are showing up for candidates. So you're totally right where it's like we need to be leveraging our tools so much more, I think, as, TA professionals.

Rhona Pierce:
15:36

Yes. And that leads into my next question, which is what recruiting technologies or tools have been most impactful in saving you time and effort?

Sean Page:
15:47

Yeah. That's a great question. I think for me, I'm a little bit like you know, I have tools, but I'm not, like, one of those recruiters just like, oh, I need to try out every shiny new thing. Like, I need to do all these things because I think at the end of day, a lot of these tools are gimmicks. Like, a lot of times, you know, they're not really moving the needle forward in terms of our data points.

Sean Page:
16:05

And really, we need to go back to the basics. It's the way that I think about it. And so oftentimes, the the 2 tools that I leverage the most are greenhouse and gym. And the reason why I use these 2 is because they're pretty simple, products that once you access to them, you can do anything. You can do most things that you need to get done.

Sean Page:
16:23

You know, sometimes the reporting is not the best, but, you know, you gotta make do with what you have. And so I think for me, it's like, when I use JEM, for instance, I use it, mostly for my sourcing. And so oftentimes, I'm creating multiple projects. Some of the projects are long term, like, roles that I know We might not be opening today, but I know in 6 months down the line, we might open it up. And so if I happen to be looking for a different role that closely matches to that, I'm gonna put that in that GYEM project so that I can, have those candidates, building up over time.

Sean Page:
16:53

So that's one way that I leverage GEM. I also use GEM, just to look at the diversity data of our pipelines. Like, it's not perfect at all, but it's just really a good way for me to remind myself, like, hey. Like, you know, we're looking low in this particular, you know, group of folks, and we need to add more, you know, women into the pipeline, Latinx or black folks into the pipeline, based off of our own, you know, DNI metrics. And so looking at that for instance or for Greenhouse, a lot of times I'm using it for candidate polls.

Sean Page:
17:23

And so, you know, oftentimes, we're also too you know, we have a, on our job board, we have a a general application where anyone can apply even if there's no open roles. And so that's another way that we can leverage, currently active candidates that are really passionate about her mention. And so going into that general pool and then putting them into, like, you know, actually organized candidate pools for based off of their interest in the department. So that's another way that I'm using it. Or, you know, even going back to that, previous example, using it for reminders.

Sean Page:
17:52

Like, it's, Greenhouse is really good at, you know, making you, be able to, like, you know, set reminders, like, set reminders for other people. So leveraging those notes as well. So those are some ways that I'm leveraging my tools. I also use LinkedIn recruiter, for instance. But mostly, like I mentioned, I just try to keep it simple, especially given that I'm in a resource trap environment.

Sean Page:
18:14

So I'm not going out there doing all the latest AI things and, you know, all the, you know, crazy, like, scheduling things. Like, I wish I had those, but, you know, you gotta make do with what you have.

Rhona Pierce:
18:25

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Do you use any free or affordable tools? Maybe not specifically recruiting tools, but any tools that you use to keep yourself organized.

Sean Page:
18:36

Yeah. That's a really great question. I think some of the you know, which you mentioned earlier, like, for instance, like, Google Calendar, like, that is something that is a free resource that is actually really easy to set prioritization reminders. I'm someone that, like, I like to fill up my blocks. Even if, you know, even if it's something that's a mundane task, like, for instance, like, sourcing.

Sean Page:
18:56

I'm putting a sourcing block on my calendar, not just for me, but for other people who may be looking at my calendar to understand what I'm working on. Or, you know, for instance, like, if I have, like, a quick, like, you know, oh, I need to call someone about an offer or something like that. Like, I'll add that to my calendar as a reminder. So, like, using Google Calendars is a free thing that you can use as well. I think also LinkedIn is actually a free resource that people don't like as much as they could.

Sean Page:
19:20

Like, for instance, like, one of the things that I'll do is sometimes, like, LinkedIn recruiter sucks in terms of, like, trying to, like, narrow down, like, particular candidate pools, but I know which companies I wanna target. And so I'll actually go to their company page, go to their people section, and then sorts through that and and do my own keywords through that. So that's another way that I'm leveraging something that's free. Or, you know, finally, Twitter. You know, you we know we met each other via Twitter.

Sean Page:
19:45

I have a pretty sizable following count, and I think I've been building that over the years. And that's been another source for me to build not only community for myself, but also to leverage that when I have a job that's opening up, I'm throwing it on my Twitter, and people are sharing and liking and doing all those things. And so I think that's another, you know, tool that's free that we also leverage.

Rhona Pierce:
20:06

Yes. How do you you spoke about using Twitter, about using LinkedIn, and you are someone who is actually really out there as far as on social media. And now I understand a little. Your background, your first job as a social media manager maybe plays in a little to that. How do you find the time to do everything that you're doing as a team of 1 and also be on social media?

Sean Page:
20:33

Yeah. That's a really great question. So I think for me, often times, it's like, you have to set boundaries for yourself, in terms of your your work. And sometimes you say no to certain things or, like, saying not now to certain things so that you can really prioritize the top of funnel, as a recruiter. And so for me, the way that I do it is I incorporate social media as part of my strategy.

Sean Page:
20:54

So when I'm telling people I'm sourcing, that's part of it. Like, I'm going into Slack communities also, that I'm a part of to, like, you know, post roles and things of that nature. You know, part of our job is building long term relationships. It's not always a media roles. And so it's really explaining to hiring managers the why behind in what I'm doing and really getting their buy in and, like, really trying to get them to understand that, see.

Sean Page:
21:15

Look. I've already built a social media presence. Like, you see the type of candidates I'm attracting. Like, you should do it too, and, like, this is how you can do it. And so, like, actually training them up into really understanding that social media is not this evil thing that we have to be afraid of or we gotta, you know, present ourselves in a certain way.

Sean Page:
21:31

Like, yes, like, there's certain standards, like, professional standards that you should have on a professional social media account. But beyond that, like, you can be yourself. You know, you can still show your personality. You can still interact with folks as long as you're doing in a way that's really equitable and inclusive. It really can go far.

Sean Page:
21:48

And so that's always been my, like, thought process and and just really trying to get the buy in for everyone and really show the results from that. And I think that has gotten a lot of people really excited about, like, you know, at at my current job about the way that we're using social media to to find candidates.

Rhona Pierce:
22:03

Yeah. And I like that you mentioned that it is part of your process. And I know for me when I put because I I like you put everything on the calendar, not because I want to appear like I'm so busy, but because really p a a lot of the recruiters that I've managed don't put things like sourcing on their calendar because they're like, well, no. That's not a meeting. But it's like, no.

Rhona Pierce:
22:29

But you are busy. You are doing things. And I know for me, when I put a sourcing block on my calendar, yes, that might mean using tools like Jam, LinkedIn recruiter, but it also means going on social media because that is part of my process.

Sean Page:
22:45

Exactly. Exactly. And I'm sure as, you know, you've been in, a management role. It's like seeing those things and blocks on the calendar also lets you know and gives the insight. Is my, you know, report, doing too much?

Sean Page:
22:56

Are they do they have so much on their plate that they don't have time to take a break or they don't have time to do other things? And so I think it also signals to your manager because sometimes, you know, in your one on ones, like, you're not always gonna have the time to, like, sit there and be like, hey. Like, I'm overwhelmed. I have all these things going on because you're, you know, sometimes you're afraid to tell that to your manager. Sometimes you're just so in the weeds that you're so optimistic as a recruiter.

Sean Page:
23:18

You're like, I got this. But sometimes it's just really good to, like, signal to your manager that, hey. Like, look at all the things that I got going on in my calendar. Like and and sometimes, you you know, the right manager manager is gonna look at your calendar and be like, hey. Actually, like, you have way too many calls.

Sean Page:
23:31

Like, do we need to offset one of these roles to someone else? Or do I need to take all one of these roles so that you have more bandwidth to focus on the highest priority roles? Like and I have, you know, managers in the past do that for me, and I think that's been really a great way for managers to really understand the resources and the time that their time team is spending. So, you know, I know that some people might think it's like tramping your like, someone's you, but ultimately, what you're trying to signal is that there's a lot that you're doing. There's a lot of context switching that's happening as a recruiter, and that sends a great signal to management that shows that, like, one that you're dedicated to what you're doing, but also to that, like, you're you're learning how to prioritize the roles.

Sean Page:
24:10

You're learning, how to best spend your time in.

Rhona Pierce:
24:14

Yes. Yeah. I and and, yeah, I've definitely had that situation where direct reports think, like, oh, you're being, like, all up in my business, but it's really to help. It's that's part of the data that recruiting or talent acquisition management should be gathering on their direct reports. It's not just time to fill, time to hire metrics, but you have to look deeper into what your team is doing.

Rhona Pierce:
24:40

So having that transparency and that visibility, and, yeah, when you have people on your team who are open to sharing that, that that really helps be able to have those conversations and just realize, wait. I can help you here, or someone else can help you here, or maybe we need to bring in additional resources because the team is overwhelmed or something's got to give, at some point.

Sean Page:
25:05

Exactly. And there's so many, like, factors that go into, you know, looking for the right hire. And oftentimes, we're trying to diagnose, is it the market? Is it our standards internally? Is it just the recruiter's bandwidth?

Sean Page:
25:18

Are we, like, focusing on, like, inbound more than outbound? Are we focusing too much on outbound and we're actually missing out on, like, good inbound? There's a lot of, like, what if scenarios that can happen. And so I think what you're trying to do is reduce how much other outside factors are happening so that you can get to a better result and make a better strategic decision. Because ultimately, again, we're also thinking about time and money.

Sean Page:
25:40

Right? Like, we're we're focusing on trying to find the balance between those 2 and quality. And those are hard through things to, like, manage as a recruiter. And so I think being more strategic as a recruiter means, like, you have to think about your approaches and think about not just your time, but how that impacts other people's time. Also thinking about the cost of those, like, actions and also thinking about the quality.

Sean Page:
26:01

Like, what experience are you creating for your candidates?

Rhona Pierce:
26:04

Yeah. Based on your experience, like, what are the top three productivity hacks? I hate that word, but you know what I mean, that anyone listening can implement right away even if they have limited resources.

Sean Page:
26:20

Yeah. That's a really great question. I think one of the best things you can do as a recruiter is be really good at making agenda. And when I say that, it's like when you're doing your, weekend weekly checking calls with your hiring managers or your kick kickoff calls with the full team, wherever structure you've created for yourself, I think really being really thoughtful about your agenda and making sure that you focus on the things that you also need to get. Like, you know, I think a lot of, things that I learned, for my own mistakes as a earlier year early career at recruiter at first was really letting the hiring manager drive the conversation and being like, oh, expecting the hiring manager to tell me all the things that I need to know about the role.

Sean Page:
26:58

Over time, I really realized I'm like, actually, a lot of hiring managers don't even know what they're looking for. They don't understand the market. They only understand what they their internal needs are. And so our job is to really drive them and push them into really understanding, like, are you actually thinking about, like, a realistic candidate? Are you not?

Sean Page:
27:14

Like, are you, prioritizing the right skills in the right order? Are we broadcasting that in the right way to our candidates? And so I think really being strong in, forming a really great agenda is something you immediately can do with, know, hiring managers. And then the second piece is really learning how to, like, you know, ask more deeper questions. And I think part of that is really understanding the business, and so really trying to sit in meetings or, you know, even trying to grab time with certain executives or, you know, even, you know, showing up to, the all hands meeting and just sitting there and listening.

Sean Page:
27:47

Whatever you need to do, like, really trying to understand the business because oftentimes, like, you know, when you're talking to engineering manager, I think a lot of people have assumption that they're, like, everything that they're thinking about is gonna tie back to the business. And sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. And so sometimes your your job is to really question, is this really great for the business, or is this, like, something specific that you care about? And so that's the things that you're supposed to challenge hiring managers on. And then finally, though, I think the last, like, productivity hack that I also, implement is, like, really having strong boundaries.

Sean Page:
28:18

Like, again, like, I, you know, think for me, it's, like, it's funny because sometimes people think having strong boundaries means that you're, like, you know, letting things slack and you're letting things fall through the cracks or whatever. But for me, having strong boundaries means, like, hey. If I have a block to go to the gym in the middle of the day, I'm gonna take that block because that really going and exercising actually is gonna make me more motivated, more energized so that I can jump on calls, and we're gonna be listening better. I'm gonna have better questions than I'm asking, hiring managers in my, you know, meetings after that that I'm going to the gym. And so, you know, that's just one example where I just think that, like, a lot of times, we need to be selfish of our time as recruiters.

Sean Page:
28:58

I think we're so easily giving our time to everybody because we wanna be seen. We want to you know, we're all nervous about layoffs. We're all nervous about whether or not we're gonna keep our job. But ultimately we're people too, and we have things that we need to get done as well. And so I think leaning into those boundaries is so important, especially in a down market, like be even more aggressive with your boundaries is what I would say.

Rhona Pierce:
29:21

I love that. And I love that your tips for being productive are basically and I'm summarizing what you said, and please jump in if I if I'm incorrect, is stand in your power as a subject matter expert in hiring because that's what you are and set boundaries. You are a person and you need to take care of yourself as a person. I love that. Exactly.

Rhona Pierce:
29:46

So now let's let's get a little I like to give listeners and viewers very practical tips. Can you walk us through just how you go about organizing your task and managing your day to stay productive?

Sean Page:
30:01

Yeah. That's a great question. So I think for me, and I I think a lot of recruiters are probably used to this system, but, like, having p 0, p 1, and p 2 roles and, like, using that as my north star in how I think about my week. And so oftentimes, I'm looking at, okay. Like, what roles are do I have that are p 0?

Sean Page:
30:18

Where are they at? Are they at a good place where I can, like, kind of, like, let them just rock and, like, you know, focus on the p one roles? Or are they at the place where I'm like, no. Actually, I need to spend a lot more time there, and I need to, like, let hiring managers know for the p 1 or p 2 roles that I actually am not gonna be able to do as much work, this week than I normally would do for your role. And so I think that's part of it.

Sean Page:
30:39

So it's, like, being honest and, like, being transparent about what your bandwidth is. And I think that's really hard. Like, I'm not gonna say that every week that's, a, a great thing. Like, one of the one failure that I had recently was I actually had a piece of role that, like because I was being asked so many other things, like, I was giving out preparing offers. I was also, like, there's, like, a d and I issue that I wasn't dealing with.

Sean Page:
31:01

There was, like, some other tasks that I had to do as well that would felt more immediate that even the p zero role started to, like, slip away for a week. And I was just like, you know, I had to have a conversation with the hiring manager and we you know, they gave me feedback. And I was like, yeah. Honestly, like, my bandwidth was really stretched thin in that week. And this is where I messed the mark, and this is how I'm gonna sell correct this week.

Sean Page:
31:22

And this is where I'm gonna be putting my time at in terms of sourcing or, you know, talking to more candidates. And so I think those are the things where it's just like, you're a person. You're gonna not always be a 100% every week, but it's really just going back and saying, how can I be more efficient? How can I think about my time? And then how can I focus?

Sean Page:
31:38

So a lot of times it's like thinking about, times and blocks. So, like, oftentimes, I have, you know, 3 or 4 hour, like, time periods of blocks for just sourcing because I'm the type of person where I'm like, I can't just source for an hour and then jump into a call. Like, that's a lot of, like, context switching for me. So I just need a full block where it's just like, hey. I have a half a day where I'm just on LinkedIn, Twitter, wherever, and I'm just gonna jam out, listen to my favorite mix, and I'm just gonna go in there and, like, look for the right candidates, and that's what I'll do.

Sean Page:
32:09

And then some, some days, like, you know, for me, a lot of my call heavy days are Tuesdays Thursdays because that's also normally the most meeting heavy days from our organization. And so I'm taking on, like, you know, maybe 5, 6, 7, 8 calls that day, and that's just a call heavy day. And I know what it's gonna be like. I try to put, like, 50 minute blocks in between sometimes. Sometimes I'm a a masochist, and I just, like, you know, do them back to back.

Sean Page:
32:32

I I think I'm, like, the fastest scorecard submitter. Like, I'll, like, write a scorecard in, like, you know, 10 minutes and, like, submit it and, like, keep it moving. And so I think sometimes you just get so, like, you know, used to those tasks that you can just do it. And I know which task I know that I have to just run with it and be fine with. And so those are sort some ways that I sort of manage my, calendar and, like, think about prioritization.

Rhona Pierce:
32:54

Yeah. And I have a few follow-up questions to that. Do you have any no call days, or do you take calls every day? Like, how do you structure that?

Sean Page:
33:05

Yeah. That's a good question. So on Wednesdays, we do have no meeting days. So oftentimes, like, I use that day for, like, sourcing. So that day, I try to avoid calls as much as possible.

Sean Page:
33:18

Is that perfect? No. But, that's usually the day that I try to stick to, like, not taking calls.

Rhona Pierce:
33:24

Do you have any, like, internal only calls day versus candidate only calls days? Do you do any of that?

Sean Page:
33:33

I don't think I naturally do that. I think I do a mix of internal and external calls on the same day. And the reason why I do that is because sometimes it like, talking to the candidate sparks new questions that I wanna ask the hiring manager. And so sometimes I actually purposely will have, like you know, if I'm talking to our data science director, and I I will actually schedule a bunch of data science calls that day for if we have a open role, and then I'll actually have that conversation with him either in the morning or the afternoon. I've had a couple of calls because that actually sparks more questions to me, more things that I can be digging in, more, you know, questions that they're asking me.

Sean Page:
34:07

It's like a literal feedback loop that I can go right to the manager that day and ask them more questions. And so I think for me, that's been a a good system, but I can see the the pros of, doing the other way as well.

Rhona Pierce:
34:19

Yeah. But I like I like that approach because it's like again, you're saving time with not having to go back, think, wait, let me prep for this call with this hiring manager. You just prepped. You spoke to the people, and now you have questions fresh on your head. Also, you mentioned about scorecards.

Rhona Pierce:
34:38

That is my when you said 10 minutes scorecards, I'm like, yes. Let's talk about that a little more. How do you do you fill out your scorecards while you're on the call? Do you do it after? What's your approach for that?

Sean Page:
34:50

So my last company, they love doing Zoom, like, recruiter calls, which I hated. I feel like it's so hard to, like, look in the camera, taking notes, asking questions, making it feel very, like, you know, genuine. And I and I feel for hiring managers that have to do that because it is really hard to, like, do it all. And so I recognize that. But for me, it's like now I do phone calls.

Sean Page:
35:12

And I think for me, that's, like, so much more efficient because I'm not looking at a person. I know my script. I know what I need to say. I know what I have to do. And really my goal right now is to listen and take really aggressive notes.

Sean Page:
35:23

And, like, that's what I'm doing. I'm taking notes and listening and doing all that stuff. And so for me, like, because I'm doing that and also too, I have a pretty structured scorecard. Like, you know, I've had all my, like, questions already in the the greenhouse scorecard. I know what my criteria is, so I already have that broken down already.

Sean Page:
35:40

And, really, I have all the HR questions already captured too. You know, a section for salary, a section to verify location. So I have all those things already built out, thoughtfully. So for me, it's, like, literally, like, off the call. Like, I've you know, unless I'm, like, really on the fence, and I'm like, okay.

Sean Page:
35:56

I need to sit here and, like, this might be a no decision right now. I'll still submit a no decision score part and then go back later to, like, change it if I would, like, cycle it and felt differently. But most of the times, you know, as a recruiter, I hate to say it, but you know within the first 5 minutes that someone's gonna pass or not. Like, you know, based off of how they speak, how they're, like, approaching the conversation, And and that's sometimes the subjectivity that I think oftentimes candidates get a little bit, you know, upset about. But the reality is is we know our internal stakeholders really, really well.

Sean Page:
36:26

I know based off your communication style whether or not you're gonna be successful on the team. And so I think those are that's the reason why I'm able to, like, submit scorecards so quickly is because I understand deeply our culture. I understand the teams that I'm embedded on, and I really understand, you know, how to build out a really thoughtful scorecard. So it doesn't take me that much time. All I'm doing is literally just taking notes and filling it out and then submitting the the final overall score.

Rhona Pierce:
36:52

Yeah. And, a lot of what what you mentioned, I used to work at a company that used to do the Zoom screens. Then the last company I was at was phone screens. And I've actually done some like polling and research with candidates and they actually prefer phone screens for the initial call as well. Oh.

Rhona Pierce:
37:12

Because it's like yeah. They they don't know the company. They're not that invested or anything yet. Getting ready for a Zoom, doing all your makeup, doing all of that. Well, if you want to, you know, I'm gonna say that because there was this post about make, it doesn't matter if someone's wearing makeup or not, but most people prep for a video call differently than they would for a phone call.

Rhona Pierce:
37:33

So candidates do prefer the low lift of it too. And I think as a recruiter, it helps me fill out the scorecards and that what you said about knowing within the first five minutes. Yes, it's true. You can assess quickly that way, but for me, what I found is when I'm on a phone call and I'm taking and I'm just focused on my scorecard and taking notes, I can also I switch myself when I'm like, no, this person isn't gonna make it. I'm like, no, focus.

Rhona Pierce:
38:05

Listen. Like, I tell myself like, focus, listen, because there are times where, yes, in the first five minutes, you think, this is a no. And then when you, like, get yourself back into it and refocus yourself, by the end of the call, you look objectively at your scorecard and you're like, wait, this, this could work, type of thing.

Sean Page:
38:28

Yeah, I agree.

Rhona Pierce:
38:31

Communication is key in our role as recruiters. Can you share, like, some techniques or strategies that you use to ensure that you're communicating effectively with your internal stakeholders, external, and with candidates?

Sean Page:
38:46

I think for this, I really think about marketing principles and, you know, you really have to build your message based off your audience. And so oftentimes, you're giving more information to folks that are external and then internal. Like, you can be a little bit more loose with your communication style. And so for me, oftentimes, when I'm with a candidate, I'm like, I'm gonna over communicate even more than I would do someone internally because I really want them to understand and be really successful in this role. And so I'm sitting there.

Sean Page:
39:12

When I go on a call, I literally walk through the agenda before I even go into the pitch because I want them to understand, like, this is the flow of the conversation. You're now you get to understand how I'm thinking about approaching the conversation so you could be structured in your thinking. And then also too, this allows them to hopefully be a little bit more calm because it's not like you're feeling like, oh, someone just talking at me for 30 minutes, and I don't know exactly how they're driving this conversation. And so I think that's a good one strategy that I've done for external, candidates on the phone. Something else that I really do is really strong email templates.

Sean Page:
39:44

Like, really making sure, that I'm really thoughtful, not only including the the names of their, interviewers. I put, like, you know, links into their LinkedIn profiles. I actually give a description of, like, what their interview is gonna be about, the timing of the interview, why we're doing the interview. So, like, giving that information is really key to external, candidates. I think when I'm working with vendors, I kinda take a more approach.

Sean Page:
40:08

I'm a little bit more aggressive with vendors because oftentimes they like to waste our times as recruiters, and they think we have all the time in the world. I don't have all the time in the world, so I'm gonna be really brief. I'm gonna ask you really direct questions. And if you can't answer my questions, it's not the right fit. And so I think that's also something that we have to do.

Sean Page:
40:25

Like, it's it's a weird part of our job, but, like, oftentimes, we're getting hit up all the time to try out new products. Or, oh, I see you on, you know, you're on Greenhouse. Like, you know, this I have a new ATS that I want you to try on, you know, all these, like, different things that are going on. And so, oftentimes, I'm a little bit more different when I'm handling those conversations because it's like, my time is valuable. So this is not a high value conversation.

Sean Page:
40:46

I'm gonna cut it short. And so that's sort of how I deal with those type of folks. And then internally, it's a little bit different. Like, a lot of times, internal folks, every hiring manager has their own style and their own preference. And so oftentimes, it's trial and error.

Sean Page:
41:00

Sometimes certain things that I've done with certain hiring managers work really well. Some hiring managers really want me to hold their hand and, like, really have really, really active conversations with them. Some of them are like, hey. Look. I just wanna talk to you when we have our, like, 101.

Sean Page:
41:15

And then outside of that, I trust that you're doing what you're doing, and we'll keep, like, you know, checking in there. And so it's, like, really trying to adjust based off of people's styles. But oftentimes, when I'm with those hiring managers, one of the things I'm really focused on again is those top metrics and really understanding, like, what's important to their team. Some people, they really care deeply about DNI. So I'm gonna check-in and tell them, hey.

Sean Page:
41:34

This is, like, panel. This is what we're seeing in the funnel. This is what we're seeing jump off rates, things of that nature. Sometimes certain client managers, it's about speed. And so we're, like, focusing on, hey.

Sean Page:
41:45

The roadblocks, why are we not moving quickly enough for this? Like, you know, are we spending, like, 3 to 4 days, like, trying to come on and and reach a decision before we move someone to the next stage, like, really diagnosing the problems there. And then for some people, it's just quality. They just haven't seen the right quality candidates. And so it's really us talking about our sourcing strategies, really sharing and sourcing together in those calls and, like, really having those, direct conversations.

Sean Page:
42:09

So I think it's really talking to those internal stakeholders and understanding their problems. And sometimes they they have multiple problems and really trying to get them to narrow it down. And so really being focused on, like, again, having those direct communications and then also reporting in channels. So I always create Slack channels specifically for every role that I had before. And so I use those channels as a way to communicate with folks, sharing out, like, things like candidates I'm seeing, sharing out data that I'm seeing from the week, things of that nature.

Rhona Pierce:
42:38

Amazing. And my last question, do you have any advice for anyone looking to be more productive as a recruiter?

Sean Page:
42:48

Yeah. That's a really great question. I think, you know, for a lot of folks, you know, I think a lot of times we get so overwhelmed with all the tasks that we have to do in the day. And I really think it goes back into first principles thinking of, like, what is the goal? What is the outcome you're trying to reach?

Sean Page:
43:03

And how do you connect the work that you're doing to reach that goal? And that sounds really nebulous. I know it does, but I think one of the, best thought exercise that I usually do, with a hiring manager is to really understand when do we want this butt in the seat? Like, when do we want this person here? And I think starting there is the best way to then learn how to prioritize because if it's like, hey.

Sean Page:
43:24

If it's like a timeline of, oh, like, you know, whatever. We just want the hot, you know, the best candidate. We we could take the time we want, you know, whatever. Then you know, hey. Like, I can spend some time really diving deep and really understanding my sources.

Sean Page:
43:37

I can really go and try to, like, you know, try a lot of different techniques to find the right candidate. Like, you have a lot of a range to experiment. And then sometimes you have the hiring managers that, no. I need this person ASAP. Like, I needed them yesterday.

Sean Page:
43:48

And that's the person where you're like, oh, okay. Like, we definitely gonna have to have a really tight plan and be really, like, proactive of, like, how we're sourcing or how we're talking to candidates and who we're engaging with. And I'm gonna need your help too because if if it's a ASAP role, we're both in this now. It's not just me. And so really understanding how do you leverage your partners, is really an important piece of, like, understanding prioritization.

Sean Page:
44:11

And so I think a lot of times, it's like you have to build that trust and really understand, like, not just trust the process, but trust the people in the process. And so a lot of times, I tell my hiring managers, we're a team. So if you want something to be a priority for me and you're saying hiring is a priority for you, then I also need to see that same energy. Right? Like, we are matching energy.

Sean Page:
44:29

So if you can't match my energy, like, don't think that, like, that's you're gonna close your role. Because if I'm going at a 100 and you're going at a 60, you're not even if I get you the best candidate, you're not gonna close that candidate because you're not putting your heart into it. You're not focused on actually, like, being a part of the process. And so I think a lot of times, like, I I hate to say it, but I think sometimes people get burnt out in this profession because they keep giving more than what they're getting. And sometimes you gotta meet people where they're at.

Sean Page:
44:57

And sometimes that is, like, hey. You know, some of my managers told me, like, you know, I would be get so get so frustrated with managers, and I'd be like, you know, hey. Like, I'm prioritizing this role. I'm doing all these things. People People are not giving me really clear feedback.

Sean Page:
45:08

I'm asking all these questions, like, you know, being really frustrated. And my and sometimes my managers are like, hey. Sometimes you gotta meet people where they at. If they're not giving you what you need, like, that's not on you. All you can really do is, like, you have the data, you have the scorecards, you can keep adjusting.

Sean Page:
45:23

And, you know, and sometimes it's like moving away. And maybe we need to decide, hey. Like, actually, this role was not a priority, and we just need to close the role. And so there's a lot of things that you can leverage. But I think going back to your question, I think what you can do in terms of being better at, like, organizing yourself and being better at prioritizing.

Sean Page:
45:40

Again, it's going back into really understanding what the key stakeholder needs, understanding your boundaries as a recruiter, and understanding how to best leverage your skill set. Some of us are better at sourcing. Some of us are better at just being on the call and really selling. Whatever your strength is, leverage that to the fullest because that is your thing that's making you a shiny star as a recruiter.

Rhona Pierce:
46:00

Thank you so much. This was a great conversation. I'm so glad we had it today.

Sean Page:
46:06

Yeah. Likewise. Likewise. This is really fun. So thank you so much for allowing me to join your show.

Rhona Pierce:
46:11

In today's episode, Sean shared a ton of practical tips for recruiters working in resource constrained environments. But what really stood out to me the most was Sean's emphasis on building relationships and communicating effectively with stakeholders. Whether it's getting buy in from hiring managers on your sourcing strategies or keeping candidates engaged throughout the interview process. Sean's approach is all about creating a human connection. If you wanna learn more about building effective partnerships with hiring managers, check out episode 3, where Amy Miller, a senior recruiter at Amazon, shared her advice for building strong partnerships and getting support for management.