#4: Mastering Competency-Based Interviewing for Sales Hiring with Tabitha Cavanagh

Tabitha Cavanagh:
00:00

While I'm not trying to get you, I am trying to help us both figure out if this selling environment is gonna be the best for you and the best for the clients that I'm representing. And so in the competency based questions, that's really what it's all about is is uncovering those stories that, you know, align with a specific thing. It's not a gut feeling.

Rhona Pierce:
00:23

Welcome to Throw Out the Playbook, the podcast for recruiters tired of hearing that hiring is broken and ready to do something about it. I'm your host, Rona Pierce. In today's episode, I'm joined by Tabitha Kavanaugh, the VP of recruiting and talent strategy at The Sales Collective. She shares her insights on competency based interviewing and how it can revolutionize the way we evaluate sales candidates. Let's dive into my conversation with Tabitha.

Rhona Pierce:
00:52

Can you share a bit about how you got started in talent acquisition?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
00:56

Always feels like a little bit of a loaded question, but I feel like many other recruiters, we sort of face planted into this. We didn't grow up in it. We did that, like, generational. But for me, it came down to just really loving people and experiencing some things along the way, and I felt like could have been better in terms of interview experience. And and when I went through cancer and chemotherapy, I came out on the other side of that.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
01:25

Really, that was the the whole, you know, kind of deciding factor of moving. Because I was in sales, I was in marketing, and I was like, I love people. What can I do? I really build on this, you know, relationship thing that I'm so interested in and and helping others. And and recruitment just felt like a natural next step and and it kinda fell into my lap.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
01:48

And I was really excited to give it a try. And when I did, it was hard. Right? It was challenging, but I loved it so much. And that was about 7 years ago, and I never looked back.

Rhona Pierce:
01:59

It's amazing. And it's it's funny because I too don't come from a traditional, recruiting background, and it's something that I got, I think, called, pulled into slash pushed into doing. But it's it's the hardest job, I think, that I've had, but it's so fun and it's so interesting, the challenges.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
02:23

Yeah. No, for sure. It's, it's so many different roles all combined into 1. So that's why, like, I would hire a recruiter any day to do almost anything because I mean, what, like, we do sometimes HR, onboarding, you know, project management. I mean, there's just so many things that come into play.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
02:43

It's, like, all about people. And I don't know what other roles out there, honestly. I mean, I know there are others that are similar, but this just feels like a whole different beast.

Rhona Pierce:
02:53

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Can you tell us a bit about the time where, like, an interview experience that you had either as a interviewer or interviewee completely changed your perspective on the hiring process?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
03:10

Yeah. You know, it oftentimes comes down to the experience that I've had interviewing, as a candidate for a for a job, you know, and I remember before I became a recruiter, one thing came to mind was an interview that I I had, it was a phone screen, you know, that someone was doing to me. I was not the person interviewing, and it lasted about 10 minutes, and I just felt like it was so boom, boom, boom. It was it was not personal. There was no connection.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
03:42

It just felt it felt wrong, honestly. And and I realized there are some more transactional roles and ways of interviewing that I guess that kind of works, but for me, it didn't. For me, I was very much like, this should be different. It should be more relational. I wanna get to know people.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
03:59

I wanna build that trust by sharing my stories and giving them permission to share theirs. And so I think that was kind of the the tipping point for me where I got into recruitment and was like, that's the way I don't wanna eat. And so that's just how I've continued to, you know, live my recruitment life is is through that lens. I just think there's a more conversational way to do it where you put someone at ease because interviews are already a stressful thing that people are coming in feeling, like, nervous and, you know, putting that pressure on themselves. So I think by setting the expectation of, let's just have a conversation.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
04:40

Like, you can expect honesty and transparency from me. That's what I expect from you. Let's just tell the truth and see where this gets us. And if this doesn't ultimately land in you getting the job, that's cool. Let's figure out other ways to add value throughout this whole experience and make it something.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
04:57

Make it something that they leave better than they entered. You know? And and that's that's just been my whole perspective on recruitment.

Rhona Pierce:
05:06

Yeah. I I love that. I've heard you say that. Well, I've read you say that on LinkedIn a lot of leaving someone better than you found them, but it's true. It's it's really recruiting your job searching.

Rhona Pierce:
05:19

It's such a life changing, situation that people are in, whether they're happy at their job and looking for a new one, whether they're sad at their job or they're unemployed. It's just a life changing decision that you're making. Why not treat the person like they're human in the process and help them if you can? So today we're going to chat about something that I find very interesting, and I think that a lot of people want to learn more about, and it's competency based interviewing. So what are the main differences that you see between traditional interviewing methods, competency based interviewing methods, and, like, why do you think that competency based is more effective for hiring salespeople?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
06:06

Yeah. Well, as we talked a little bit before this, you know, salespeople are really good at telling stories. Right? And they're not always true stories that I'm not alluding to every salesperson out there on the wire, but, like, you know, they're really good at talking. They're really good at spinning a situation, to kind of fit in their favor.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
06:26

And and so, you know, that's why I love competency based interviewing because there's nowhere to hide. And while I'm not trying to get you, I am trying to help us both figure out if this selling environment is gonna be the best for you and the best for the clients that I'm representing. And so in the competency based questions, you know, and and the whole interview experience, that's really what it's all about is is uncovering those stories that, you know, align with a specific thing. It's not a gut feeling. While we can all have those, we've all had them as recruiters, you know, the the good, the bad, the ugly, all the things, but, you know, ultimately, that's what competency based interviewing is all about is looking at these specific.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
07:15

And in this instance, I'm looking at 21 core competencies that align with what are the makeup of the best sales people and understanding where do those people fall in that spectrum. The specific test that I use is sales specific, and it has tested over 2 and a half 1000000 people Over 34 years, it cost 50,000 companies. So there's a lot of data backing up the questions that go into it, and the candidates don't know exactly what we're measuring. So when they take the test, you know, it's always, like, tell the truth, and let's see where this comes out. And if it doesn't come out the the right way, the right way, right, that ends up with with you getting this job, you know, again, I'm I let them know this is good.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
08:05

This is good that we're figuring out this alignment now because it also means that this selling environment is not gonna be conducive to the way that you like to sell. For example, I have a a client right now, and they have more of a one fall close. And the test will uncover if this person is is more conducive to that type of environment. And it doesn't mean that you just hard stop, you know, not gonna interview this person anymore. But what it does is it leads us in the right direction with the results of the test aligned with a guide that I've created so they know, okay.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
08:37

We know that maybe they're not the best or maybe they don't like doing a one call flows. Let's dive in a little bit more there to figure that out. And they have then uncovered, yeah, this person doesn't thrive in a one call close scenario. They like more of a longer sales cycle or whatever it might be. And so, yeah, it's it's really helped in in a lot of different areas.

Rhona Pierce:
09:01

Can you tell us a bit more about the test that you're talking about and how what's the process like, how people take it, and what's the typical process look like?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
09:11

Yeah. So it's called the sales DNA test, and it takes about 45 minutes on average. So it's a little bit longer, but the thing is is a lot of times companies in sales teams are using personality tests, and there's no sales personality. So you can't use those. Sure.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
09:30

Can they be a supplementary assessment to help you figure out where this person might be a value add to your team? Absolutely. I love predictive index. I mean, there are other ones that are really good, but the one that we utilize is sales specific. So that, again, it just it helps everybody on all sides, and it, the data, as I mentioned, it's about a 92% predictive validity in terms of if someone comes back as a recommended candidate, there's a 92% chance that that person is going to become a top half performer on your team.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
10:08

There's other recommendations, like, worthy of consideration, meaning they meet some of the criteria, not all the criteria, and then there's a not recommended status as well. And it's just all very science database, and it's not the end all be all. There are other factors, of course, that come into play when you're hiring, but it is a a really big piece of the puzzle to help you determine, is this person going to be successful? And I don't know if if, you know, how deep you are in sales, and I'm getting I was in it for a while in sales recruitment. I kinda got out of it for a while, and now I'm deeply back in it.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
10:44

And it's crazy to see that about 25% of all sales hires are those that's the small percentage of of those that thrive and then ultimately become top half performers. You're looking at, you know, the rest coming in and and failing, and I'm not blaming it all on one side or the other. There are so many factors there, but the the test helps you assess before you hire somebody versus after.

Rhona Pierce:
11:10

How does competency based interviewing help you, like, uncover the unique story of the abilities of a salesperson beyond their resume?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
11:21

Yeah. It's a great question because resumes I mean, we all we all have feelings about resumes. Right? But I mean, I'm just I'm reviewing so many resumes as most of us are in this field, and you just see the same things over and over. A lot of times there's embellishments or there's more than embellishments.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
11:42

So I often find there's missing information, and you might see so much potential. Maybe they work for some really great companies needing a line with who you're looking to hire for, and maybe it's size, maybe it's industry, but then they just don't have the information. It's a bullet pointed list of responsibilities. Basically, it looks like they copied the job description and pasted it onto their resume, and it doesn't tell me how well they did the thing. So the competency based interviewing, again, helps pinpoint those specific areas and actually encourages them to tell a story in that area.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
12:21

So, you know, you can kind of go down the line and and I'm I'm not able to get to every single competency in a phone screen. But I am able to kind of hit some of the more important ones, which we call will to sell. Those are things like your desire. How badly do you want to be great at the thing you're doing? Things like commitment.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
12:41

Are you willing and able to do the awkward things ethically to get the job done? And in sales that might look like cold calling. Where in an interview, someone's like, oh my gosh. I love cold calling. Like, give me the phone.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
12:54

I just, like you know, it's my favorite thing in the whole wide world, and then they get into the job and they're allergic to it. Right? And so it's just asking those questions and pinpointing the actual examples of a time, you know, like we listen, calling it out. We know cold calling kind of sucks. I have not really met many people in my career that say I love cold calling and actually mean it.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
13:19

So it's almost like calling that out on the front end and saying like, yeah, it's it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread and and giving them that space to be like, yeah, you're right. Like, I really cold calling is not my favorite, but here's how I've made it work. And then you're kind of hitting a few things. You're hitting, you know, their commitment to doing things that they don't wanna do. You might be hearing things like responsibility, which is another competency.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
13:44

Are they taking accountability for their actions? Are they blaming it on? So it all really plays into each other.

Rhona Pierce:
13:52

What are some, like, specific competency based interview questions that you found effective to evaluate things like, you know, ability to handle objections, problem solving, and sales, just all the fun stuff that we really want to evaluate in a salesperson.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
14:11

Yeah. I'm actually gonna, like, look to the side for one second because what I did was pull up, and I'd be happy to share this with anyone that wants to see it. That might be watching this. It's like, I would love to see this guide. I have it pulled up.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
14:23

It's very extensive, and I do not remember every question on it. So I wanted to have it with me, so I could actually share some things. So the way the guide works and the way that I structured it was based off of the test and those competencies. And what this what someone could do using the guide is click on the competency. It will take them directly to that in the guide.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
14:44

It will give them a definition for that. So, for example, handling rejection might seem obvious, but what this actually means is this isn't whether or not someone's afraid of being rejected because no one really likes rejection, but it is how quickly someone can bounce back after being rejected. If it takes, you know, 24 hours or so, fine. Right? A day, maybe.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
15:10

But you get into, like, the weeks and the months, and and it's that's obviously gonna be a hindrance on the sales process. If you make a cold call, someone rejects you, and you're like, well, I can't make another cold call for 3 weeks because I feel crummy. Right? So one of the questions I like is, again, let's be real with one another. You know, when you lose a deal or someone tells you no, how fast do you bounce back?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
15:34

You know, right away, does it take hours, days, or weeks? Ultimately though, it's understanding what feedback did they seek out when they've been rejected? When something doesn't go their way? Are they trying to evaluate what they could have done better? Are they listening to calls?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
15:53

Are they watching, you know, the the film, if we're talking about kinda, like, athletes and stuff? But that is their version of that. It is understanding what they get, and a lot of people shy away from that. They don't wanna role play. They are scared.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
16:11

It's uncomfortable, but the best salespeople out there role play. And I know I avoided it for a really long time because of those reasons. I was like, this is really awkward. I feel uncomfortable, but the best people push through. So it's understanding what they do in this situation.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
16:31

And we've all been there when things haven't been going well. Maybe I remember I was just talking to Anna Morgan actually, not that long ago, within the last couple of months, and I was like, I just feel like I'm hitting a bad streak. I feel like nothing is going my way in terms of, like, finding the right candidates and getting the right people on the phone, but it was just about what do you do when you hit a bad streak? You know? Do you give up?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
16:57

Do you and, like, just listening for the types of examples that they give. So those are some of my favorite questions. I also love the responsibility questions, because, you know, it's understanding you know, one of the questions is, what's the difference between taking responsibility for a loss and making excuses? And it's just like you're giving them these questions, like, I don't care what direction you go with it. I just wanna hear, and there's not necessarily a right or wrong.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
17:26

I mean, I don't wanna hear someone blaming everything under the sun versus themselves. Even if that's what they're used to doing, it's like in a I had a client interview someone, and they were like, yeah. She scored a little bit lower on responsibility, but when

Rhona Pierce:
17:45

she was talking to us, she recognized

Tabitha Cavanagh:
17:45

that that was something she needed to work on because not everyone's been taught it. So, again, not an excuse. You don't wanna, like, let that be an excuse. But if they're open and there's an awareness, these competency based questions are more about awareness. It's more about understanding the type of person and the skills that you're bringing into an organization.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
18:03

Does it align? Can you support in the areas where they're maybe scoring a little bit below target? Those are the things that really matter most. It's not about perfection because none of us are gonna get this all right all the time. So yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
18:17

For sure. So competency based really focuses a lot on past behaviors. Right? So can have you had any situations where, like, through using competency based interviewing, you discovered a candidate's, like, unique story, something that really was hitting and you couldn't have discovered through traditional interviewing or traditional screening?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
18:43

Well, I think a lot of times this link puts it the ball back in their court. So, I'm trying to think of a specific example, but, I mean, that's really what it's all about. It's it's calling out these very specific things that essentially, hate to say forced, but kinda force them into a situation where, like, they have to give you an example. And so I like it on both sides. This isn't exactly what you're I'm trying to, like I can't think of a specific example of, like I just know that it's uncovered things that you wouldn't have otherwise uncovered.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
19:18

It's allowed my hiring managers to get more in the weeds with their candidates and stop just, you know, I had an example of a client who they said, we got to them at the interview and we were like, this is a great interview. Then they got off and they were like, wait. What did she actually what example did she actually give us? And it it allowed them to actually go back and say, hey. We realized we didn't really get an example from you on this.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
19:46

Like, what you said sounded great, but it was more fluffy. And so this skips the fluff. It doesn't there's no room for fluff in these answers because you're gonna be able to see very clearly, is someone giving me an example or are they not? You know? So

Rhona Pierce:
20:02

yeah. That's so good. I think I remember back for the longest of time when I started recruiting, I was afraid of interviewing, of hiring sales people, because I was young in my career. I I had come from software development. That's what that's what I am, a software developer.

Rhona Pierce:
20:23

And salespeople are just very personable, and they can talk. And I would ask all these questions, and then I would have that feeling after an interview. It's like, wait. I loved this person. I connected.

Rhona Pierce:
20:35

It was great, but they didn't really answer my questions, like, when you went back to the notes. So how do you train your clients to conduct and to, like, really effectively do these competency based, interviews?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
20:48

Yeah. No. It's a great question, and I've absolutely been there too. I'm a connector. Right?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
20:53

I can talk to almost anybody, so it's hard to sometimes differentiate that. And that's where this is the first time in my career I've used these types of questions moving over to the sales and using this specific sales DNA test and then building out this guide. And that's really how I train my hiring managers. You know, we talk about, the competencies that that are most meaningful to them in their environment. We start by calibrating a test specifically to their environment because someone's past successes, I mean, where do those happen?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
21:27

Not in their environment, not in this, my client's environment. Right? They happen in a different environment. So while they could be an indicator of future success, there's still a little bit of a delta. So using these competency based questions and training them to identify them, decide before they start interviewing how they're going to decide, and then using the test results and the guides together, they're able to, again, remember the definition, so not make up whatever they think it might be in their head, but actually, like, this is the competencies definition, so we're all on the same page.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
22:06

One person isn't thinking of it differently than another, and then they have the same questions. So uniform to ask. Now they don't need to ask, you know, each competency has anywhere from 4 to, like, 7 questions aligned, and I train them to go in and find the 1 or 2 that feel most applicable to them, maybe alter it to their environment if there's something specific, and then use these questions to ask. So every every applicant, every candidate is being asked very similar questions, different, right, based on how they scored on the test. And then, of course, there's always questions that are very specific to their sales environment that are not on this competency list.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
22:51

Right. But that's always the starting point and that keeps things very uniform to make sure that they're all on the same page and not measuring someone differently because, oh, we went to the same college or I like that person's socks or whatever it was, you know, that day that they might have been feeling inspired by. So

Rhona Pierce:
23:11

So you took to that good point. Do you think that competency based interviewing helps with ensuring that your team is diverse and is inclusive?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
23:22

Absolutely. I really like, in the way that I also train. So I think that it all kind of, like, it connects, but it standardizes the evaluation criteria, right, which in it in and of itself kind of mitigates the biases and and ensures that the candidates are evaluated fairly based on their abilities rather than, you know, some type of subjective judgment. You know, I encourage them to create a very inclusive environment. Again, just like helping people feel very comfortable coming in, not always judging people based off of, you know, their education or things like that because for me, it's about the experiences you've had in your life, personal and professional, that add up to the job that you can do versus a piece of paper.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
24:15

I understand some industries and things do require very specific degrees, and I can absolutely appreciate and celebrate that. But I think that especially in sales, there's salespeople have come from all walks of life. Right? There's not necessarily a sales degree. Sure.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
24:31

There are methodologies and certifications and things that you can get, that again, not everyone has access to, but maybe you learned that methodology at your last job, you but you weren't certified in it, but you can speak to it. Right? So it's just being open minded to those things, making sure you're avoiding different biases. And I think that ultimately those questions and being standardized and walking through that the same with every candidate is helping, you know, with some of that. That's not perfect.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
25:03

Right? But I think that Yeah. It helps. And then some of the blinds, I mean, they are seeing the resume, so it's not totally blind, but the results are blind. Right?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
25:16

They're not combined with the resume. So when someone goes in, they're just looking at the results of this candidate and saying, where does this person fall? How did they score? And and it does feel a little bit separate in that way.

Rhona Pierce:
25:31

What advice, do you would you give to talent acquisition professionals who want to, like, start implementing competency based interviewing in their sales recruitment process?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
25:43

Yeah. You know, I I think it just comes down to communication with your hiring teams and being on the same page. It has to filter down. Right? You're this there has to be leadership buy in on some level for you to I mean, you can implement it yourself as a recruiter, but if the rest of the team doesn't see any value in it, then you're gonna have have a really hard time.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
26:05

So, truly, like, this guide has been super transformative, and our clients have been really grateful to have it. So I'm open to sharing it with with anyone that wants to take a look at it, but it's just making sure you're coming up with that same criteria. However that whatever that looks like, and there's good and bad practices there, but, like, coming up with the standardized criteria that allows you to walk your hiring managers through to train them in the right way, you know, being that value add that recruiters are supposed to be, in our space. We're not just order takers. We're supposed to be here to say, this is what we're seeing in the market.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
26:42

These are the things that I've learned along my way, and we don't know what we don't know always. Right? But understanding how to call out biases and not being afraid of of challenging the hiring managers. And that's actually, one of my other favorite competencies on here is called the need for approval, which is basically the need to be liked. So how much of a need does someone have to be liked?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
27:05

And in sales and recruitment, that can be a big hindrance if someone is very worried about just being liked. For me, it comes down to being respected over being liked. And, generally, I'd I'd like to hope and think that most people like my style, but I know it's not for everyone, especially because I'm not afraid to challenge. I'm not afraid to call out, Hey. That feels like a bias.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
27:28

Can we just talk about that? And we all have biases, so not judging you, but, like, let's just recognize that it's there and then figure out how we can move forward together. And so just having those conversations with hiring managers and starting to define the criteria that really matters for your specific environment and then looking for who is a value add to that versus trying to fit an existing goal.

Rhona Pierce:
27:54

So what if I'm a recruiter that's working in a organization with a sales leader who's been around forever, has hired a specific way, and I see the value in competency based interviewing for all the reasons that we've spoken about. And I want to convince this very old school person of how to let's start doing it this way. What are some things that that recruiters can use to talk to leaders like this?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
28:24

Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. And listen, the reality is is you're not always gonna change someone's mind. I mean, we've met with clients that don't see the value in this. And when that happens, you have to part ways.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
28:34

Right? Like and the unfortunate part is you can't always part ways with your hiring managers at work when they don't agree with you. But I think one thing that I what I would do is I would start trying to implement this on my front end process. And then in the summary that I would write to the hiring manager is really focused on these specific competencies and kinda just start to show them versus tell them and try to just say, well, this is what we're gonna do, but show them by way of, you know, influencing and maybe changing their minds because you're bringing forward different candidates that maybe they wouldn't have taken a look at before. One thing that, because I'm still newer to this, but I have an example when I was recruiting in customer success, which is similar to sales.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
29:22

You know, there are definitely sales components. And I remember that the company I was working for at the time, they were you know, the compensation wasn't it wasn't the worst. It wasn't the best. But what was happening was they are constantly having attrition on their customer success team because they were trying to hire in people at this lower salary and people just kept leaving for for other jobs. And so I was tasked with coming in and and building back up that team.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
29:52

I had to hire about 6 or 7 customer success people, and I ended up finding people from just, like, different walks. Right? Like, transitioning teachers and coming out of, like, different roles in health care. And, I mean, there are people that are still there today, you know, 2, two and a half years later. And that was such a proud moment for me to say, like, okay.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
30:16

I I just I had to do my job, which is find the right competencies that they're looking for. Even though I wasn't doing it in this exact way, I had to still find the things that were most meaningful in the role, find people that were exhibiting those traits, and then bring those people forward in their price range. I mean, how can you how can you say no to that? I mean, you say no, but, like, how long do you want this role to be open and do you wanna keep filling it? And that's the other data I would look for is, well, how often are these people turning over on your team?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
30:46

You know? Just because you're getting what you think is right, how often are those people leaving and not becoming top half performers? Let's actually look at some data here on the core things that people need to have to be successful in sales, and then let's go find that. You know?

Rhona Pierce:
31:03

I love that. I love the whole showing and not so much telling people just like, hey. This is how I do it. And and I love also, showing the data, of course, of, like, well, this is how it works because it always helps have much better conversations. It touches a little on what you said.

Rhona Pierce:
31:24

We are not only taking orders here, when we're recruiting. So showing that you know and you have data to back up what you're saying is always great for conversations. Yeah. So how can listeners get in contact with you and get this guide that we've been talking about?

Tabitha Cavanagh:
31:45

Yeah. The best place to reach me is on LinkedIn. So you could search by hashtag Tab the Recruiter or look me up tap the Kavanaugh. I'm the one working for the sales collective. I don't know if there are other tap the Kavanaugh or something did, but just message me.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
31:59

Just shoot me a connection request. In the connection request, just say that you would love to see the interview, guide competency based interview guide, and I'll be happy to to send it over and talk anybody through it. We're gonna be doing some workshops coming up and things like that where people can learn a little bit more about this, but it's a part of our offering here that we teach our clients, you know, how to use this effectively in combination with the sales DNA test. So yeah. Thanks so much.

Rhona Pierce:
32:27

Of course. And I'll also include your contact information in the show notes, so that people can just click on that directly and contact you. Thank you so much for our conversation today. This was really helpful, really fun, and I can't wait to hear the questions that listeners have.

Tabitha Cavanagh:
32:44

Awesome. Thanks, Rona. Appreciate you having me. It was great to be here.

Rhona Pierce:
32:47

If you wanna connect with Tabitha and get the salesperson interview guide, visit the show notes for links to both. Next week, I'm chatting with Mary Kay Baldino about working with hiring managers in a global company and bridging cultural differences. Mary Kay shares how TA leaders can create an environment that empowers both recruiters and hiring managers to become true partners. You don't wanna miss it. If you're enjoying throughout the playbook, leave us a 5 star review.

Rhona Pierce:
33:17

Reviews help other listeners find us. And by all means, click share and send throughout the playbook to anyone you think might be into it. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.