#16: Making the case for Hiring Manager branding with Carrie Corcoran

Carrie Corcoran:
00:00

I did see a survey recently that said that 80% of candidates want to hear directly from a hiring manager

Rhona Pierce:
00:09

recruitment marketing efforts versus a recruiter. You might be thinking, cool staff, but how do I get my hiring managers involved in recruitment marketing efforts?

Carrie Corcoran:
00:20

Just do a really quick interview, maybe 5 questions for that hiring manager, and create the LinkedIn post for them. And then say, look, I've given you the suggested copy. I've given you the hashtags that you need. I've given you all the information. So the excuse of not having enough time is not cold water.

Rhona Pierce:
00:42

That's Carrie Cochran, an employer branding consultant who has figured out how to get hiring managers to be active participants in your branding efforts. And in today's episode, she's sharing her strategies for overcoming objections, creating compelling content, and measuring success. So if you're struggling to get your hiring managers on board, and even if they are on board, if you don't know what type of content to create, grab a notebook because this episode is for you. Let's dive in to my conversation with Carrie. So thank you so much for being on the show today, Carrie.

Rhona Pierce:
01:19

I like to start every interview asking my guests how they got started in employer branding and in talent acquisition.

Carrie Corcoran:
01:29

That's a great question, Rona. And thanks for having me on your show. I'm a huge fan. I've been listening since you started this year. And thank you for putting yourself out there and educating people on what it takes to do things right in HR.

Carrie Corcoran:
01:43

I got my start back in 2013 when I took on a dual role with a contact center solutions company. Part of my responsibility was traditional marketing, and the other part of my responsibility was recruitment marketing and employer brand and talent attraction. And, we didn't even call it employer branding back then, specifically. It was just, I need you to figure out how to attract independent contact center agents to work for our clients and our customers. And I found that I was drawn more to that side of the business versus the traditional business to business marketing.

Carrie Corcoran:
02:28

And I haven't looked back ever since then.

Rhona Pierce:
02:30

Perfect. Everyone has a interesting story of how they got to this. So we're gonna talk today about hiring managers and including them in recruitment marketing and employer branding efforts and how TA folks can help them and get them really to participate. So but let's back up a little. Why do you think it's important for hiring managers to be involved in recruiting marketing efforts?

Carrie Corcoran:
02:58

Well, as the hiring manager, you know exactly what type of talent you're looking for and who you would like to join your team. And there's no one better to talk about that and what they're looking for specifically than the hiring manager. Style of management, and why you may consider joining us at this company. It's more impactful. I did see a survey recently that said that 80% of candidates want to hear directly from a hiring manager in, recruitment marketing efforts versus a recruiter or employer brand messaging.

Rhona Pierce:
03:48

It's true. They wanna hear from the people that they'll be working with. They just I think recruiters and employer branders just have the reputation that is not good, but it's true. It's the true reputation that we're selling them and that we're not telling them the truth. And I think that's why they want to hear more from hiring managers, which they believe are the ones that are telling the truth.

Rhona Pierce:
04:14

Now I may or may not agree with that, but that's a whole other conversation. Can you share some of the, like, common objections that you've encountered hiring managers about participating in the branding efforts and have how have you successfully addressed them?

Carrie Corcoran:
04:31

Absolutely. That's a great question. So in getting hiring managers involved, the biggest disconnect I feel, is that they say, well, I don't have enough time to do that. This shouldn't be on me. This should be on marketing.

Carrie Corcoran:
04:46

Like, you guys do it. I I don't have time. And so to counter the I don't have enough time aspect, what I do as an employer brand manager or what you could do if you're the recruitment marketing manager and you're working directly with that hiring manager is to say, just do a really quick interview, maybe 5 questions for that hiring manager and create the LinkedIn post for them. And then say, look. I've taken the opportunity based on our conversation to put together what I feel you're looking for to strategically help attract that next employee for your team.

Carrie Corcoran:
05:27

Can you take a minute to review this? It'll take you 2 minutes to review this, make any edits that you feel are necessary, and then go ahead and post this on LinkedIn. I've given you the suggested copy. I've given you the hashtags that you need. I've given you all the information.

Carrie Corcoran:
05:47

So the excuse of not having enough time is not cold

Rhona Pierce:
05:52

water. That is perfect, and I love that. And I'll share a bit more about this later in the episode, but I've also even got hiring managers on video in that way. I've invited them to a Zoom. I've given them a few questions for them to answer about the role, and I've told them obviously, I tell them ahead of time, like, hey.

Rhona Pierce:
06:13

I'm gonna record, so please be camera ready. All you have to do is just show up and answer these questions. And I ask them the questions, and then I can edit. I can make the videos, the short clips, create the the accompanying post, and give it to them. And all the time that they spent was whatever 30 minutes that they were on that Zoom call with

Carrie Corcoran:
06:34

me. And that is a great way to do it too. I've seen that work very well.

Rhona Pierce:
06:38

Yeah. So what advice do you have for TA professionals working in organizations where there's little to no culture of hiring manager involvement in recruitment marketing?

Carrie Corcoran:
06:50

I think it starts at the top. Like, is your employer brand supported from the top? I mean, do you even have an employer brand? Do you have an employer value proposition? What does that look like?

Carrie Corcoran:
07:03

What are the specific pillars? If you do have a team, it's working with your team, your employer brand team. Their responsibility is education across the organization, and I feel that is where a lot of employer brand or recruitment marketing folks could do a better job is to any opportunity that they have. Educate, educate, educate. Because why should a hiring manager care?

Carrie Corcoran:
07:33

They should care because ultimately, when you attract the right talent and you're a pillar of wrong talent, you get a great person to join your company. Perhaps there's longevity with that employee. And it does eventually impact your bottom line. If it doesn't immediately impact your bottom line, or maybe it doesn't long term, but it may impact your efficiency or doing the job better or well or helping make your department or division better. So education is key when it comes to employer brand and recruitment marketing efforts.

Rhona Pierce:
08:10

Yeah. And and I think it's just a lot of people in all of companies, they just are stuck in how things were done in the past, and they're they have to understand somehow they will. And if they have professionals within the organization that they've trusted to do employer branding or to do talent acquisition, then we should be the ones really explaining and educating, like you said, this is why this needs to be done. This is how we do it. So how do you train hiring manager, like, to effectively share their stories and experiences, but in a way that aligns with the overall employer brand?

Carrie Corcoran:
08:53

That's a great question. So in aligning with the overall employer brand and training them how to do that, what I've seen and I've done successfully with companies is to do a pilot program, improve the effectiveness of hiring managers, putting themselves out there and who they're attracting. I did this, for a regional bank with videos, it worked incredibly well, and surveyed the candidates who were hired afterwards and asked them, while you were in the process, did you watch any of the videos? Were videos shared with you? What was your experience like?

Carrie Corcoran:
09:34

And some who joined the company said, I watched every single video. I had a great idea of what the culture and the division looked like because I saw those videos. And so I knew what to expect coming in to my new role. Others said no one shared any videos with me because we had certain recruiters who did and certain recruiters who didn't. And so the ones who only maybe saw like 1 or 2 videos, they actually said, I wish there would have been more in the process while I was going through this.

Carrie Corcoran:
10:11

And it's a great way to keep candidates engaged when you're reaching out to them on LinkedIn, or they're in that candidate experience, and they're in the interview process, is to continually feed them information about here's what you can expect about the manager, the team, the culture, the company, and give them I say, you know, in this case, more information is better than less. And so do a pilot to prove with data and survey, and then present that to a hiring manager and say, look, we tested this. It does work, and here's why you need to do it. Educate leadership above them, and then they can push for that as well and hold them accountable for actually being part of the they should be a recruiting arm for the company.

Rhona Pierce:
10:57

Yeah. For sure. And that was such a great opportunity that you had to survey the the candidates after. Did you share that information with the recruiters that were kinda hesitant of sharing the videos?

Carrie Corcoran:
11:12

I did. They were still hesitant.

Rhona Pierce:
11:17

That's always something interesting. Have you had any experience, or do you have any tips for anyone that's dealing with that with part of the the TA team itself who we're supposed to be the champions for this type of thing, having like any type of pushback. Do you have any tips for anyone dealing with that?

Carrie Corcoran:
11:36

I do. I think if you have solid leadership in place, and that leader understands the importance of employee branding, recruitment marketing, getting those hiring managers involved, or even the recruiters, I mean, your recruiter should be your first line of defense. And then your hiring managers, recruiters are mainly working with the hiring managers to have them hold them accountable. And truly, that's where it works best that this is part of your responsibility as a recruiter to do this. And then to showcase, okay, so and so I mean, do a competition.

Carrie Corcoran:
12:14

Everybody likes a good competition. Recruiters are competitive, well salespeople. So you could even do something like that to say, Oh, look, Sally did this. And it resulted in this. You didn't do anything and or not anything, but you used your traditional methods.

Carrie Corcoran:
12:31

And it took you longer to to fill that role. It took shorter to fill this role with these employer brand strategies implemented across the team. So you have to have solid leadership that believes in it. It's very hard, and I've been in both these situations before. But to do it well than to do it well.

Carrie Corcoran:
13:00

And so you have to have that buy in from at a minimum, the person you report to, hopefully, it goes even higher than that.

Rhona Pierce:
13:09

Yes. So, changing gears a little bit and going back to the hiring manager portion of this. What are some quick and easy content ideas that hiring managers can start with to just to start building their confidence with creating content and sharing on social media?

Carrie Corcoran:
13:29

That's a great question. Just putting themselves out there initially and sharing on social media. You have access to chat GPT. Like, I'm all about the tools. I mean, yes, it's great to have authentic content and write everything yourself.

Carrie Corcoran:
13:46

If you're looking for efficiency, use chatgpt or a similar AI tool. And you just need the right prompts. So I would put in the job, I would copy and paste the job description, and say, create a short LinkedIn post expressing the top three things that they're looking for. And then going back and editing that, like, I don't copy and paste what is specific with what chat GPT spits out to me. It always needs to be edited, and it needs to be in that person's voice.

Carrie Corcoran:
14:21

And then it's more authentic. It's not a 100% authentic, but it's closer. So that is an easy way to get started with that, just doing a simple post on LinkedIn. Taking a picture of your team and something, maybe a fun outing that your team had, you know, that user generated content, asking your team members, hey. Do you have any photos that you've taken at company events that that we could could use for talent attraction and involving them, then they're a little bit more invested as well.

Carrie Corcoran:
14:58

If you do have a reporter brand or recruitment marketing team or a team of team of 1, have that person involved in your intake meetings and be very strategic about it because they have a different lens than everybody else on the call. And they will take away from that meeting very specific things to bring out in the story to tell. So involve your recruitment marketing and your employer brand people in those, a lot of people call them intake meetings. I like to call them recruitment strategy consultations, because everything should be a consultation. It shouldn't be, you know, you're educating, but you're also consulting at the same time, you're the expert in what you do.

Carrie Corcoran:
15:47

And so really have a voice at that table.

Rhona Pierce:
15:50

Yeah. Beyond those quick ideas, what type of content would really make your company stand out?

Carrie Corcoran:
15:58

Video by far. Candidates quick, like, 20, 32nd videos. Here's your hiring manager. Here's their style. Just get them talking about here's my style.

Carrie Corcoran:
16:11

This is what I'm looking for. These are the top three things. Quick, efficient video. And even do a series of videos. Maybe 1 at one point, it's here are the top three things I'm looking for.

Carrie Corcoran:
16:23

This is the role I'm hiring for. If you're looking for x y z, and it's efficient, it's cost effective. If you don't have a video tool, that's okay. If you have a marketing department or if you do have an employer brand team and there's basic editing, like you can even edit in Canva now. So it's so much more efficient than it used to be.

Carrie Corcoran:
16:45

And simple tips like that where you can save money and you don't have to implement a full blown recruitment marketing video tool or platform. Those work really well.

Rhona Pierce:
16:58

Yeah. And people really aren't looking candidates aren't looking for those highly produced, overly polished marketing videos because they know that whatever is being said in those videos is something that was rehearsed and was planned. The videos that I've done with hiring managers that have worked the best are the ones where they literally take their camera, their phone, hold it up, do a selfie, talk about something. We post that on TikTok or LinkedIn too. And those are the ones that have always, always worked the best.

Carrie Corcoran:
17:33

Oh, exactly.

Rhona Pierce:
17:34

The quick and dirty ones. There wasn't a lot of production behind it. We used tools that we had that are really inexpensive. Like you said, there's Canva. There's so many tools to create and, like, edit quick video.

Rhona Pierce:
17:49

So yeah.

Carrie Corcoran:
17:50

A 100%. And I think another easy thing that I've done before, it's that half hour interview, or maybe it's a 10 minute or 15 minute interview with a hiring manager where you record it. Report it, then transcribe it and put it, then edit it, and bring out that story. I like to post stories on LinkedIn, and the these have worked very effectively for hiring managers, where it's you're interviewing the hiring manager, and then you bring out their story. And maybe it's just 2, 3, 4 pieces, But it's a full blown article.

Carrie Corcoran:
18:26

And that's something that they can post on LinkedIn. It's something that the recruiter can post on LinkedIn. It's something that the recruiter can share after a really good first conversation to keep them engaged in the process. It's something that you can ask your team members to post and reshare. And, you know, have your recruitment marketing or your employer brand person do that.

Carrie Corcoran:
18:50

It's so effective. And when I was at the bank, we did, I produced, and directed a lot of those different stories on LinkedIn for hiring managers and teams. And there was a hiring manager who posted for hiring a, who's a personal banker, and these bankers make like $450,000 a year. So that's a really hard position to fill. Yeah.

Carrie Corcoran:
19:16

And this hiring manager had posted the story on their LinkedIn profile. And a contact of theirs, not a candidate, but a contact of theirs sought and shared it with someone that they knew who was looking, that person interviewed and that person got the job. So what did that cost? Maybe 3 hours time of your employer brand person and maybe half hour from your hiring manager total? Worth it.

Rhona Pierce:
19:44

Totally, totally worth it. Can you share some creative ways that hiring managers can really use video to showcase their personalities and their team culture?

Carrie Corcoran:
19:57

Like you were saying, just being transparent and make an authentic video. Maybe it's, you know, a day in the life, if that's appropriate. There's, here's what I do. Well, like, not everybody works in an office right now. A lot of people are hybrid now, though.

Carrie Corcoran:
20:14

So maybe it is that hybrid situation where it says, here I am, like, I arrived at the office at whatever time it was. And here I am at lunch with my team. And it's just it's showcasing the different stories and the elements throughout the day and letting that candidate know what they truly can expect when they join that team. The worst thing that can happen is a is a bait and switch, where companies on the best places to work list, their top 100, Glassdoor, what have you, and hiring manager puts out a video, and they're not authentic. They're not transparent.

Carrie Corcoran:
20:55

And then the person gets in, and they're like, this isn't what I signed up for. And iterate with your team too. Ask them, hey, do you have any creative ideas? Like, get them involved in the process. Like, you know, if there's a lunch or something, like, let's just do a, like, a 10 second snapshot of what it's like to have fun on this team and showcase the the good aspects of it.

Carrie Corcoran:
21:18

Also, be transparent. And, like, I like to talk about the good, the bad, not ugly that a candidate is going to face because, again, it goes back to being transparent and authentic and not sound like a bait and switch.

Rhona Pierce:
21:31

Yeah. And, really, the easiest way that I always tell people to find content ideas for recruitment marketing is listen to your candidates because most of the time, it's not a new role, and most of the time, it's not the first time ever that you're recruiting for this company. Right? It's not like hire number 1. So candidates have asked questions during interviews.

Rhona Pierce:
21:54

They ask questions during interviews. They ask questions to the recruiter via email like, hey, just or I want to know this or what to expect. All of those things, answer those proactively. I even created a course. It's a free email course, and, of course, I'll link it in the show notes.

Rhona Pierce:
22:12

That is for, like, storytelling prompts for recruiters, and it's all based on an anonymous survey that I ran. I asked job seekers, like, what would you ask, in an interview if you knew that your chances of getting hired wouldn't be impacted? Those questions are gold, and you we all have that information. Like I said, we have surveys for candidates. We have questions that they've asked during interviews.

Rhona Pierce:
22:39

Just look through that and you'll find so much content ideas based on what your own people are asking you. And the best thing is that's the best type of content. It performs the best because that's what they want.

Carrie Corcoran:
22:52

Exactly. And that's, those are golden nuggets right there.

Rhona Pierce:
22:56

So how can teams, like TA teams, measure the impact of hiring managers involvement in employer branding efforts?

Carrie Corcoran:
23:06

Oof. Measuring employer brand efforts is always the $1,000,000 question. I would have $1,000,000 if I could solve that puzzle. If recruiters are posting the content, and if they're posting directly to their LinkedIn profiles, then you can see the the analytics behind that. Right?

Carrie Corcoran:
23:27

And so it's looking at the analytics and how many people like this post, how many people shared this post, What were the views on this? What does that look like? So from a recruiter perspective, that's how you could track some of the success of the different content that is posted. Of course, there are multiple tools out there that you can purchase. I would say mainly if you're a mid to enterprise size company, those tools are going to work for you because they're on the expensive side.

Carrie Corcoran:
24:02

And, you know, that's another way where you can track effectiveness across TA teams. And but also one thing that I didn't see people do well is, and and I'm not sure what the hesitancy was around this, when a candidate applies in the ATS, there's a source that goes along with that. I'm sure you've seen this. How many times do they say Internet? Okay.

Carrie Corcoran:
24:28

Did they really find out about it just on the Internet? Or did they see a piece of content on LinkedIn, on someone's profile, which they considered Internet? Yeah. So in that first conversation in that screening conversation, ask that person, how did you hear about us? Tell me more about that.

Carrie Corcoran:
24:51

Like what prompted you to apply for this role? And keep track of that information because that is helpful for determining what types of content to put out there that's going to resonate with candidates and also where you should potentially spend more money as far as recruitment, marketing, advertising dollars.

Rhona Pierce:
25:17

Yeah. And also, like you said at the beginning, survey the employees, survey the people that you end up hiring now that they've gone through the process because video isn't only gonna be at the top of the funnel. You can use it throughout the entire funnel. So, survey the people that you hired and ask them directly. At that point, you can ask them so many things and you can go more in-depth and ask them and then share that information because that's the source, really.

Rhona Pierce:
25:45

You can also add specific question to your your NPS survey, to your, like, candidate experience survey that you sent to everyone. There's so many ways to get this feedback. And I think a lot of people when we talk about how do you measure this, they're like, oh, it has to be a specific metric that, like, ties back specifically. Look. There are ways, and there is an episode that I did with James Ellis about measuring the the ROI of your employer brand.

Rhona Pierce:
26:13

It's really good. I don't remember the episode number, but I'll link to it in the show notes as well. And he has a whole way of explaining how to tie it back to dollars and all of that. But at the end of the day, everyone isn't wanting to know the specific dollars. Hiring managers don't necessarily wanna know that.

Rhona Pierce:
26:33

They wanna know how what they're doing is going to impact the hiring process, how it's gonna make them find more qualified talent, all of that. So when you have that information, just like you shared at the beginning, and you go back to them, it's like, look. This is what really what worked. Oh, okay. Then they're more open to doing it.

Carrie Corcoran:
26:54

Well, they're and and then they become invested. When you get to know them, and you're telling their story, they're more invested. It's their 15 minutes of fame or 10 minutes of fame or what have you. And everybody likes well, okay. Maybe not everybody, but there are people who are comfortable on video.

Carrie Corcoran:
27:13

But if they're not comfortable on video, then it's a LinkedIn article or it's a post or it's a photo. And just showcasing their authenticity in that way. And then they become invested in the process.

Rhona Pierce:
27:27

Yeah. So we've chatted a lot. Let me make sure that we covered everything. Do you have any final tips for listeners looking to start creating video content?

Carrie Corcoran:
27:43

I would say the biggest thing is, start small. There's always room for improvement. Do something versus nothing. It's like that elephant. You have to take one bite of the elephant at a time.

Carrie Corcoran:
27:57

So that's my analogy.

Rhona Pierce:
28:01

Yes. I I always say just hit record. Look. Your first video is going to be cringe. I had a interview with Joel Lalji, who I think everyone has seen.

Rhona Pierce:
28:14

He's created something like 5,000 videos in the last 2 years. In the interview, he was talking about his first video ever, and it's like you look at it and you're like, oh, no. Why did I do this? But you have to start somewhere, and you'll get better. I remember I posted about this.

Rhona Pierce:
28:30

I posted my first ever video a few, like, probably last year or something, and I told people this is where I've come from. This is where I started. And I remember to I asked in the comments, like, just roast the video. What was wrong with it? And you were one of the people who commented, and you nailed everything.

Rhona Pierce:
28:50

Yeah. I was like, oh my gosh. So cringe. But at the time when I created it, everyone was like, oh, this is amazing. This is such a great idea.

Rhona Pierce:
28:58

There's so few people doing video and doing it well that just the fact that you've started, just the fact that you've done something is great. There are very, very few videos that I've ever seen on social media, like on LinkedIn or stuff like that that I'm like, oh my gosh. Why did they do that? Very few. And it's usually not the video itself.

Rhona Pierce:
29:23

It's what the person was saying. So whether you say it in writing or whether you say it on video or whether it's a photo, there are just some things that don't need

Carrie Corcoran:
29:34

to be

Rhona Pierce:
29:35

said. That's a whole other conversation. The video itself yeah. The video itself, everyone's always very receptive of those things. I don't know if that's been your experience.

Rhona Pierce:
29:46

Have you ever had someone be like, oh, my gosh. Get this off the Internet.

Carrie Corcoran:
29:50

No. I mean, my first video when I worked for the bank, that was the first time that I really embraced video. And I had to as for talent attraction, it was my idea. And my lesson learned there was make sure that you have a strategy or activation plan built out in advance when you're asking for dollars for a platform. Because I asked, my boss loved it.

Carrie Corcoran:
30:27

She submitted it to the CHRO, who approved it in 3 weeks. Now, when does that ever happen at a large enterprise company that you get approval in 3 weeks? No. And then it was approved. And it was like, go, you're No.

Carrie Corcoran:
30:44

And then it was approved and it was like, go. You're on. I was like, okay, lesson learned.

Rhona Pierce:
30:51

Lesson learned. I think we've all have those stories. But, yeah, those are great tips. How can listeners get in contact with you?

Carrie Corcoran:
31:00

The easiest way to get in contact with me is to connect with me on LinkedIn. I have furry cares employer rank consulting. I have a LinkedIn page as well. Feel free to follow that. I do post a lot of content, both video, which I need to get back to.

Carrie Corcoran:
31:19

I haven't done many in a while, and I need to get back to that again and educational. And I enjoy sharing and giving back to the community. So the easiest way to connect with me is on LinkedIn.

Rhona Pierce:
31:32

Amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show today. This was a great conversation that I'm sure that that listeners are going to enjoy and find a lot of value in. Thank you, Rona. I appreciate

Carrie Corcoran:
31:44

you having me on the show. It was a pleasure, and I love that we both live in the same city and we're able to get face to face.

Rhona Pierce:
31:52

Yes. Yes. Next time, maybe we'll do a podcast interview in person at a studio.

Carrie Corcoran:
31:59

That would be fun.

Rhona Pierce:
32:00

Thank you.

Carrie Corcoran:
32:01

Yay.

Rhona Pierce:
32:03

Thanks to Carrie for being on the show. Getting hiring managers involved in recruitment marketing is one of the hardest parts of our jobs. But the truth is, candidates want to hear from them. So it's no longer optional. It's part of what we need to do to attract, engage, and retain qualified talent.

Rhona Pierce:
32:22

And I get it. Your management team might be reluctant to work on their employer brand, much less encourage hiring managers to participate. That's why in episode 7, I spoke to James Ellis about how to measure the impact of your employer brand and how to get management on board. The link to that episode is in the show notes. If you want some help coming up with ideas for video content and recording short form videos for you and your hiring managers, I've just launched a new done for you service where you spend 1 hour with me, and I create a month's worth of short form videos for you.

Rhona Pierce:
33:00

It's that easy. Learn more at thoroughouttheplaybookdot com slash video. The link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.