#15: How to Create Great Recruiting Content

Transcript

Joel Lalgee:
00:00

A lot of times, we think that we have to consistently come up with new topics and new ideas. And when I looked at people within the business to business space, people like Gary Vee and Alex Hormozi, Cody Sanchez. One of the thing I've noticed is they actually kinda say the same stuff a lot.

Rhona Pierce:
00:20

That's Joel Lalgee. But if you've ever been on the job search side of the Internet, you probably already knew that. Joel has gained over 500,000 followers by creating thousands of videos over the past 2 years. Today, he's breaking down the counterintuitive secrets to creating recruiting content that actually works.

Joel Lalgee:
00:40

I think a great recruiting content, you understand your candidates or your clients and what they care about, and that's what you're posting about.

Rhona Pierce:
00:47

From mastering repetition to leveraging your expertise, Joel shares how to create content that attracts candidates, impresses hiring managers, and establishes you as a trusted voice in recruiting. Let's dive into my conversation with Joel. So you've built an incredible presence on social media. You've got, I think the last time I checked around, 500,000 followers across, like, your platforms, and you're known for, like, authentic and engaging content. What inspired you to start creating content alongside your recruiting stuff that you do?

Joel Lalgee:
01:26

Yeah. So I don't know if anybody out there remembers this or if you remember this, but there was a time on LinkedIn where there was no video. And then suddenly, I think it was 2017, they started to introduce video on a platform. And I actually had a friend who was one of the first people who started producing videos on LinkedIn, and she would just go viral. Because, you know, sometimes when they introduce new features, they really push it.

Joel Lalgee:
01:51

And so she went really viral. And so I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. I don't you know, and that, in my head, I was like, maybe I'll do some video one day and just went back and forth in my head for like years years. The resonating message from people with video was, if you can create video, that's good and engaging. You have to reach out to people, they'll come to you.

Joel Lalgee:
02:13

And being a recruiter on the agency side, full desk recruiter, a large portion of my job was selling people. A large part of your portion of sales is reaching out to people. A large part of reaching out to people is getting rejected. And I don't like getting rejected. It hurts.

Joel Lalgee:
02:29

It's like the worst part of the job. So this message around, if you can create a brand that people like, or people trust, you don't have to do that anymore. So that that's really what inspired me to do it. And I think on top of that, when I started doing it, you know, I was like, I had that inspiration moment. And when I started doing it, I just quickly realized number 1, I really enjoy the process.

Joel Lalgee:
02:52

And then number 2, I thought that time I was pretty good at it. And I was creative. And now looking back at some of my original content, that was not the case. But I believed I was, and that was enough to keep me going.

Rhona Pierce:
03:05

Yeah. That's always a struggle when, when I look back at, like, my first videos, I'm like, can we

Joel Lalgee:
03:10

keep you

Rhona Pierce:
03:11

off in or not?

Joel Lalgee:
03:13

I know. But luckily fires. With LinkedIn, they you don't go viral. Right? Right away.

Joel Lalgee:
03:17

So I feel for people who make one video and go viral, and then, like, that's gonna be a worst video ever. And now I'm gonna remember you by.

Rhona Pierce:
03:26

I know. Every time I see a cringe video, I'm like, I need to create more to push that down, like further away so no one sees it. So talking about video, I read a post of yours the other day that you've created 5,000 videos in the last 2 years. That is a lot. How do you find the topics for your videos?

Joel Lalgee:
03:46

I'll start by saying, I think when we think of the topics for videos as individuals, a lot of times we think that we have to consistently come up with new topics and new ideas. And when I looked at people who particularly within the business to business space, so outside of the entertainment arena, so I'm not talking about YouTubers like Mr. Beast, or like, you know, Logan Paul, Jake Paul, those guys. When I look at people in the b to b space who are big name, big creators, I think people like Gary Vee, I know like Alex Hormozi has has joined the scene, Cody Sanchez. You have these like influencers and one of the thing I've noticed and I just noticed with looking at a lot of these people is they actually can say the same stuff a lot.

Joel Lalgee:
04:31

And they repeat, and they just say it in different ways. Sometimes they even say the same exact thing. And I think really quickly, I realized the reason that you can do this is because in our mind, we think all that that person's watching that day is our video. And that they're somehow gonna remember it. What I found is we don't really remember individual videos from people per se, we just as a whole know them.

Joel Lalgee:
04:57

And so my topics like and with that being said, doesn't mean you just have to have one topic, but I've built my topics around recruitment, career, and then corporate. And so and then, you know, if I was to break those topics down, I'd say corporate, we might have remote work, might have like flexibility, trust within the workplace like corporate politics. Maybe there's some advice in there. And then career, or just sorry, job search and career. We're looking at resumes, like interview tips, and then recruitment, we might look at ghosting of best practices or some humorous types of ways to work with hiring managers.

Joel Lalgee:
05:32

So kinda like to have broad topics and then break those those topics down into smaller segments. But I do not stray away from those topics. With the exception of on LinkedIn, I'll occasionally post things about my personal life occasionally. But if you look at any of my video platforms, I don't really talk a lot about my personal life. Maybe on Instagram, I do some stories personally, because people seem to like those, but I just stick with those topics.

Joel Lalgee:
05:58

And then I say a lot of similar things. And then just try and do say those things in different ways. But that helps with the creation process, because then I'm not constantly feeling that pressure to reinvent the wheel or come up with something new. That can be a challenge. Right?

Joel Lalgee:
06:13

Because if you're 10 videos in and you're feeling like, oh, I've got to talk about something new, that you have limited If you've you've niche down and you have topics, then you there's just gonna be limitations with that.

Rhona Pierce:
06:24

Yeah. I always tell people when I talk to them about, like, this and they ask me about how to get ideas, it's like the best videos, your best content is actually the stuff that you're absolutely bored of talking. Like, you know, you're doing good when you yourself are like, oh my gosh. I have to talk about this again. But the truth is no one remembers it.

Rhona Pierce:
06:43

Really. Like, even people who watch all of your videos or everything, you say the same thing in a different way. And everyone's like, oh, I love this. I love this. So

Joel Lalgee:
06:54

yeah. We really overestimate the impact of our own content a lot of the times. And again, the most one of the most common things I get is, Oh, yeah, I've seen some of your content. I like that meme you shared the other day. And I'm like, you've reduced all of my 5 years of work content to a meme.

Joel Lalgee:
07:10

But that that's just the nature of the world that we live in. And it's you're not just battling against or I shouldn't say battling because I don't like to use that terminology. But you're not just out there on an island by yourself. You're competing against the other people on the platform for attention. You're you're competing against Netflix, right?

Joel Lalgee:
07:27

You can be in against the news, you can be in against, LinkedIn games, LinkedIn news, there's a lot of competition for attention. And because of that, you know, I think about advertising, you know, with this, it's like, well, Toyota has the same commercial, they'll play the same commercial for 2 months straight. Is a reason for that. And it's because they're anticipating that people aren't going to really remember it, and they need to reinforce the ideas. And so understanding that I think it takes off a lot of pressure, as well.

Joel Lalgee:
07:54

And it's just helpful to know that that's one of the big things that holds people back, right? It's just what am I going to talk about? So I think relieving yourself of that is huge. And then the other question then is like, well, when do you get the time for that? And again, it's it's you get better, the more videos you get like it at first, it took me a long time.

Joel Lalgee:
08:13

And then, you know, video 3,000, you get 3,000 into it. Now I'm at a point where I can I can create 10 videos in 20 minutes, because there's not as much re going back and editing? I know what I'm gonna say I say it. And that's it. Whereas at the beginning, it was a little bit for a 5 second video, I might spend 20 minutes making it.

Joel Lalgee:
08:33

And so it then that kind of becomes a cheat code because the more you do, the better you get, and you can't skip that process either.

Rhona Pierce:
08:42

Yeah. So what's can you walk us through your content creation process?

Joel Lalgee:
08:48

Yeah. I can try. I would say the first thing to think about, there was a time where I would sit down and plan things out. And this way, rarely in in my LinkedIn journey, which is where I started, I would have topics picked up each day. Now, I'm the type of person who and you think you got to know the type of person you are, I'm the type person who I'm not a planner, by nature.

Joel Lalgee:
09:11

And there's actually something I enjoy about not knowing what I'm going to post, which plays into the fact of why I enjoy doing things. So a lot of things are in the moment. But at the beginning, it was very much I am gonna post a video on this topic on maybe cold emailing Canvas. Now I'm going to post an image about, you know, my kid. Now I'm going to do a poll on this topic.

Joel Lalgee:
09:29

So I'd have like a brief map set out. That's how I did it earlier on. Now, it is very much and I again, now to give some context to this too, this is my full time job. So I don't have any other job. This is literally what I do.

Joel Lalgee:
09:46

So now it is very much like I'll just have an hour of time in the morning, our time in the afternoon. And usually what I'm doing now is like reacting to a lot of things or like getting a feel for like, what are people talking about what's in the news, and then finding things I have opinions on thoughts on, and I'm just creating things in the moment. So it's gone from planning, and, you know, having like a framework, which I think you need to have at the beginning to keep yourself accountable to now it's very much in in the moment. So I'm also huge on repurposing content. And so when you look at like, just how many platforms I'm on, I mean, I'm on pretty much every platform you can think of.

Joel Lalgee:
10:28

But I've I've learned which platforms are interchangeable with content, which ones aren't. And because of that, I might say one thing on LinkedIn a certain way and then say the same thing on threads, but in a way in a threads way. And then I might take that. Right, and they could be 2 written posts and then make a video on what I just wrote about. So I've gotten really just a good understanding of how to say the same things in the way that people in there that are going to respond on the platform.

Joel Lalgee:
10:58

And understanding like, hey, we write something, you can literally do a video on what you wrote. And so that's gonna how that's my thought process. So I might have a topic that I really am passionate about. And maybe on LinkedIn, maybe I do a 2 liner that says, you know, be careful who you trust at work, you might get burned. Okay, so that's 2 line.

Joel Lalgee:
11:14

And then I can tweet that because it's so short, I can put that on threads, Maybe mess around with the verbiage a little bit. But then I could do a video on that and say, guys, you know, be careful who you trust at work and tell a little bit of a story around it with the video. I think when I think of content creation, it's like have the topic, understand each platform, and then just kind of create similar content, which kind of goes back to what we said with with that, you know, with the earlier point of just having those topics established and knowing what you're going to talk about. The last thing I'll say with that is I think it just takes time to get to that point. And I think this is a part that's really hard is like, you can't just start out and be like, well, this is it.

Joel Lalgee:
11:54

This is my message. You almost have to start speaking and putting yourself out there to figure out, like, your voice and what you're about. I think some people, if you're starting out of nowhere, it's gonna be like that. Maybe if you've done public speaking or you've done, like, leadership training, you might have that a little bit more thought out. But I think for a lot of people, you kind of figure out that voice and what those topics are through actually just creating and doing it.

Joel Lalgee:
12:19

And so it might start out one way and then you see it evolves and it changes over time as well. So I don't know if you experienced that as well.

Rhona Pierce:
12:27

Yeah Yeah I've experienced that because it's like you Like you said, I I have kind of similar way of doing it like you as far as I have my topics, and I just know that these are the 4 or 5 things that I talk about. And I wish I had, like, a a calendar full with, like, I've got 2 weeks, 3 months full of foot. No. I don't. So, yeah, you just get used to it.

Rhona Pierce:
12:50

But I think the most important thing that you've said and that I want, and I always say, and I want everyone to remember is the more you do it, the better you get. And then you have that moment when you're like, okay, this is me. This is okay. This is online Rona. It's the same Rona as real life Rona, but this is online Rona's voice.

Rhona Pierce:
13:10

Because when I do this, this is what works. I know exactly what types of post are the ones that my audience resonates with. I know my emails that work. I, like, I know it. And I occasionally try other things because I'm just human and I wanna try other things.

Rhona Pierce:
13:27

You just get to a point where you know. But that happens after doing it over and over and over again.

Joel Lalgee:
13:32

100%. Yeah. And it's it's so interesting because there's a lot of different factors because I do think there's an online persona that kind of happens because it's a one way communication. But I think the authenticity comes in. And I'm seeing this a lot more.

Joel Lalgee:
13:50

And and again, to give some context, like I started doing I started probably really getting into content creation about 6 months before COVID, which is when a lot of people jumped on. So I was kinda like be I was like early on kind of before that wave of people that came in, which already kinda gave me an advantage because I had a little bit, I was already a little bit more established. But one thing I hadn't done is I hadn't really done networking in real life a lot. And in fact, when I would go to networking events, I was really uncomfortable at the time because I always had that pressure of selling and began being a recruiter. What you do?

Joel Lalgee:
14:25

Tell me about your business. And you get your sales manager. If you're gonna go to this event, you better come back with 7 leads that we're gonna turn into business. And because of that, I just had, like, a phobia of events because I've just genuinely enjoy meeting people. But I genuinely enjoy meeting people most when I don't have an agenda, and it's so hard to balance that when you're in sales.

Joel Lalgee:
14:44

So I say all that because now when I go to events, like I went to event an event last night, like in a small dinner, and, you know, it's definitely the dumbest person in the room, which is always where you wanna be. Like, that's that's when you know you're in a good room when you're just like, wow, these people have amazing experience. I'm like learning a lot, seeing different perspectives. But we were talking about I was talking about some of the messages that resonate with people with my content. And I think in those settings now, I'm seeing, like, there's definitely a way to do content.

Joel Lalgee:
15:16

And there's a persona that's kind of out there. But I think when people meet you, that authenticity is if there's a really vast difference between your message and what you're saying and how you communicate. Or for example, if you're like, hey, I really care about people and people are amazing. And you're putting all this inspirational stuff. Then when you meet people, if you are kind of just not nice, so you're not asking questions, you're not engaging, then that can cause a huge issue.

Joel Lalgee:
15:44

So but it's like balancing that. And then it's also going okay, well, I have an audience here. And what I found is like audiences shift and like, what's going on shifts as well. So you almost have to, you got to cater to the audience to a certain degree and then stay authentic. And, you know, and that that's hard.

Joel Lalgee:
16:02

It's such a hard balance. And, you know, let's face it when it can when you talk about like, virality, and you talk about things that are like mass appeal. This is a trap that a lot of people on LinkedIn fall into, They fall into the mass appeal and which is, you know, we've all seen those posts like it could be something like, you know, people don't leave jobs, they leave managers. Everyone goes, yes, thousands of people. And that you can be tricked into thinking that that's building like a robust brand, but it's not.

Joel Lalgee:
16:30

And so it's again, even that is a balance because you you're managing, like, the dopamine and all of all of these things.

Rhona Pierce:
16:37

So Yeah. Because you're human. You want to feel like you it feels great to get those likes and stuff. But then when you look back, it's like I say it to myself. It's like, I don't want to go viral because my post that, like, a lot of people see.

Rhona Pierce:
16:52

Then you you go, like, coming down from that

Joel Lalgee:
16:55

Yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
16:55

To get back to your your regular content and the audience that you want. And, I mean, we're doing this for a reason. Right? You and I do this full time. We're doing it for a reason.

Rhona Pierce:
17:04

Like, there's goals. It's not just likes and stuff like that. It's like I can't pay my mortgage likes.

Joel Lalgee:
17:10

Which I think you can to a certain degree. But and what I mean by that is like like, if I'm going to a brand, for example, and I say to them, hey, I got millions of views and I got millions. Like, I'm gonna be able to charge more for certain things. You know, obviously, with, like, speaking, if you've got big following, you can start to leverage things. So I think that because I hear people say that a lot.

Joel Lalgee:
17:31

And it's like the likes don't pay the bills. And it's like, well, I think it can if you know what you're doing with it. But to your point, there are definitely a lot of people and it's usually not in the b2b space. You also usually exploded some at some point with not really a plan or an intention. That's where the likes don't pay the bills.

Joel Lalgee:
17:49

And I think on LinkedIn, for example, which I do actually think that like, that's a hard platform to monetize if you haven't, like, really thought it out or, like, you don't have the strategy behind it or you you're not having conversations. And out of all the platforms, I think that's it's it's the most lucrative if you can figure out how to convert those likes into brand deals, and you can get into that world. But it's also the one where I see most people with big followings. They're not making any money at all. And it kind of goes back to what we you said where it's like, who is your actual like, what's the audience like that's gonna drive you either business that's not to do with content, or if you are looking to be like an influencer and do brand deals?

Joel Lalgee:
18:32

What's the audience you're building that brands are going to want to reach? And and a lot of people aren't thinking that. They just think, woah, I've got a 100,000 followers. Well, who who are those 100,000 followers? And like

Rhona Pierce:
18:43

Exactly. Because when you have those conversations with brands, they ask you that question.

Joel Lalgee:
18:48

They always do. They always do. And then they're gonna expect results. And I've seen it. I'm not gonna obviously name any names at all.

Joel Lalgee:
18:57

But I've I've talked to founders and people who have worked with influencers who have really, really big, bigger phones me, I got like 200,000 followers on my personal, like 50 on my business page, which that's a lot. That's a lot of we're talking about 250,000 people. It's an enormous amount. But they're talking to people who have bigger followings than me. And then they try and they do like, some sort of like promotion, and there's no conversion there.

Joel Lalgee:
19:22

And I think the thing that I actually see the most, which is not talked about enough is when you go to their video section, if you got 2 videos or 3 videos, you got no brand. Brand, it's built through long form video, short form video, audio. It's got to be more than just a written post, unless you're gonna go, you know, maybe, like a Justin Welsh. He's he's he's probably one of the people who I think has done done miraculously without doing any video content. But he's also selling like a 1, you know, 99 widget almost.

Joel Lalgee:
19:55

That's not a scalable repeatable model for most people. And again, it just has created this whole weird ecosystem on on LinkedIn. But I think, like, the video and, like, this type of content, this is powerful because if we've only got 10 people listening right now to this, but all of those 10 people are decision makers that hold a budget, they're engaged in it. There's a lot high likelihood, you can get a good conversion even out of just 10 people or 40 people or 50 people versus 3,000 people liking a post on LinkedIn, it's like 3 lines, but zero substance. I'd rather I take those 10 listeners that are listening for hours and are really engaged versus 3,000 people that just in a second click something and then scroll down.

Rhona Pierce:
20:39

Yeah. And that and that totally applies. So most of the people who listen to the show are recruiters. They're not necessarily like you and I who wanna do this full time. We're professional content creators.

Rhona Pierce:
20:50

They're creating content to attract either clients

Joel Lalgee:
20:54

Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
20:54

Or candidates. So in your opinion, what makes great recruiting content?

Joel Lalgee:
21:00

I think it's it's knowing if you knowing that number 1, what's the goal. Right? Because some people, it is just gonna be candidates. It's great. Some people, it's gonna be clients.

Joel Lalgee:
21:10

So knowing that ICP knowing what they care about. And ICP, what is that? It's like, ideal client profile or whatever. So and that could still work with candidates. Like, are you I think you can think about it in the in the same exact way, but knowing what they care about.

Joel Lalgee:
21:24

So when I train people on what's the type of content you want to post about, I've changed my mind over this over the years, because it used to be very much like, you know, post some personal stuff, post some solutions to their problems, and then talk about some of your your kind of wins that you've had, which I think is actually a fine model. But the the problem was it was missing one key component. And that's the news. I think this is an area that recruiters, they miss out because when people come to a recruiter, it's for two reasons. For job seekers, they want to know, do you have any jobs for me?

Joel Lalgee:
21:58

And then for the clients, they want the biggest question you have to get as recruiters. Tell me about the market. What's going on in the market? So I think a great recruiting content, you understand your candidates or your clients and what they care about, and that's what you're posting about. So if let's say I'm recruiting software engineers, and that someone who does really good job with this is a guy called Taylor Dessen.

Joel Lalgee:
22:17

If you don't know Taylor, go check out Taylor. That's like, we've always done so good. And he, you know, gets invited to, like, tech conferences to speak as a recruiter, which is like, who how does that even happen? When you look at his content, he's not really focused on trying to go viral or likes. He's like telling a story, consistency, he's built a community of tech people, but he talks a lot about stuff that they care about.

Joel Lalgee:
22:40

And so he's talking about the news and talking about how's AI going to impact these technologies? And how can you, you know, leverage more money in an interview? So just think about the people that you're trying to reach, what do they care about? And then you want to be that go to person. And it's a long game.

Joel Lalgee:
22:56

This is not like a short game. It's a long game. Just like any other relationship is a long game. Relationship doesn't happen in an hour like because people be like, well, what about, you know, like a phone call? And I think, Okay, well, the phone call isn't a relationship, like multiple phone calls over a period of time of meeting real life over years is a relationship.

Joel Lalgee:
23:16

And it's that same idea with social media. It's like you're creating a relationship with your audience over time, a longer time, but it's talking about things they care about, versus what you think that they care about or what you care about. And I think that's the stage that people don't always, they don't always get to that point. Now, if you look at my content, the way that I do this is I do a lot of humor. And then one is because I just like to laugh.

Joel Lalgee:
23:41

And I think I'm funny. And like, when I meet people, like, I usually am like joke, the jokes. I've always been the jokester. But number 2, I'm like, man recruiters, like, you gotta have a sick sense of humor to be a recruiter. So they all resonate with it.

Joel Lalgee:
23:53

And they just resonate with the unpredictability of people in our job. And so when you look at my content, that's what I've thought about. And that was from years of creating content, and then realizing why I took a page out of Adam Carpia, if you guys know Adam on on LinkedIn. Yeah. He talks a lot about from a job seeker's perspective, he talks a lot about the hiring process, how screwed up it is.

Joel Lalgee:
24:19

I was like, I I kinda wanna be like the Adam Carpiere for recruiters. So I'm gonna talk about, like, I'm gonna make content for recruiters. And And at the time, I was recruiting recruiters, and that's why I went that direction. Right? And it's turned into something else, but that's always my advice for people is, like, think about who that small market is and just speak to them speak to them speak to them.

Joel Lalgee:
24:38

Doesn't need you don't need to appeal to everybody in the world. But you want that community of candidates, that industry to think of you as like, you are one of the recruiters that like, I respect and I follow. You do that over the long term. That's how everything in recruitment, everything in sales just gets easier and easier and easier.

Rhona Pierce:
24:58

I I like everything you've been saying. I've been like, yes. Yes. Yes. Because it's like, I've been I've this week, I've had a lot of, like, workshops that I do workshops for for companies, and I've done LinkedIn lives and things like that about this topic and about I've been talking a lot about storytelling for recruiters and how to incorporate that into your content.

Rhona Pierce:
25:16

And everyone's always like, well, but what do I talk about? And it's like, as recruiters, we have this information. It's so easy. Like, what questions are people asking you at the end of an interview?

Joel Lalgee:
25:26

Exactly.

Rhona Pierce:
25:27

When you say like, hey, do you have any questions for us? Those questions turn that stuff into content. Like and then, one, you won't have to be answering it over and over again because I know as a recruiter like that. I got bored of answering the same questions over and over. And then it's like, it appeals to people.

Rhona Pierce:
25:43

Like, if 3 people, 3 of your candidates ask you the same thing, trust me, a 100 want to know.

Joel Lalgee:
25:50

Write it down.

Rhona Pierce:
25:51

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Lalgee:
25:52

I think Amy Millich, she does a good job of that, like, on her YouTube channel. But then this is the other thing that happens is whenever I bring up any kind of content, recruiters always going, well, someone else saying this, someone else saying that. And I think that's because your whole feed is recruiters because most of us recruiters like to connect with other recruiters. I don't know why it's just like weird thing we do instead of connecting with candidates. But we love to connect with other recruiters.

Joel Lalgee:
26:16

So our whole newsfeed is full of Amy Miller or, you know, Andrew Lewis or like these guys who were just posting stuff and you're like, look at it and go well, they just said something about resume. Then we need to wake up to the fact that, you know, I think I've got 800,000 followers on social media. And guess what? I go out in public, and nobody knows who the hell I am. That is not I'm not a celebrity.

Joel Lalgee:
26:39

Because when you look at LinkedIn user base even there's 1,000,000,000 users. K. So I might have 200,000 of them who clicked follow at one point who knows how engaged any of those people are really engaged. So it's not like if that's 200,000 people who are like, obsessed with me. Just like Gary Vee has 5,000,000 followers, but it doesn't mean that 5,000,000 people are always liking his posts.

Joel Lalgee:
26:59

He has like 2,000 likes, so it's actually a low percentage. But my point is there and even with Gary v, I talked to my neighbor the other day. Say, hey. Yeah. Do you know who Gary v is?

Joel Lalgee:
27:07

No idea. And so I think you just have to, like, put that out of the way and go, look, I'm just gonna put good value information and helpful information. And you'll be surprised that I've had neighbors come up to me. I did my neighbor. You know, I think even I hate to say it, but I don't even know.

Joel Lalgee:
27:24

I can't remember her name. She was like, yeah. Like my husband, like, he's been looking for a job and he just came across your content. It's been super helpful. And I'm like, that is insane.

Joel Lalgee:
27:35

You know, and but I could have got sat back and go, well, I'll just let the other people who are putting up I'll let I'll let this other guy do it. And I think we got to get out of that mindset and just realize like, the other thing too, then is we think, Oh, well, everything I know is simple. Oh, this is basic information. Let me just tell you basic information is to you who is highly valuable information because it's just you deal with this stuff all the time. You deal with the with the resumes.

Joel Lalgee:
28:01

You deal with the hiring managers, the process. Candidates don't. They only deal with it when they're looking for a job, which is what maybe 2 or 3 times in their lifetime, if they're, you know, if they've gotten laid up, like, it's not something that happens every day. And so we can think, oh, this is just so basic. But it's actually not basic.

Joel Lalgee:
28:20

It's just stuff that you've known. And like anything, if you do something a lot, it does become basic to you. But it's like highly valuable to other people. And so I always tell recruiters, like, keep that in mind. Like, you know, it's okay to say the same thing as someone else.

Joel Lalgee:
28:34

Like, it's you're gonna get different people respond and some of those people be like, wow, that's mind blowing. I never knew that. And if you wanna get confirmation, like, go on TikTok and look at all the terrible content that's on there that goes viral. It's like we we owe people this.

Rhona Pierce:
28:48

That that's a great thing. It's like you owe people putting out good content and good advice. And, also, yeah, Amy Miller has a ton of followers. You have a ton of followers. But just because you've talked about a topic or Amy's talked about a topic, doesn't mean that my No.

Rhona Pierce:
29:05

Way of talking about the topic is different. And, also, it doesn't mean that, like, I'm sure I have followers who don't follow you because that's just the the nature of how this works.

Joel Lalgee:
29:16

Look. It will exactly. And that's so I'm saying even, like, Justin Wells, she's got he's got, like, you know, 100 he's probably got millions of followers now on, like, across these platforms. Trust me, go into a gas station and be like, you know Justin Welch is. Oh, you know that.

Joel Lalgee:
29:33

I was thinking about the other day, I was listening to, like, an old, it was like a twisted Kanye West song. And it's like, I was thinking in my head, I was, I wonder if I went to, like, teenagers today. You know, twisted. Is it just like, it's like relevant back in, you know, 5 when I was, you know, when I when I was I was there, but like, these and that's a celebrity. You know, I think we again, it's kind of go back to that whole idea of like your own individual content, like you think everybody's like, really dialed in and tuned in.

Joel Lalgee:
30:01

It's like, no, probably not as much as you think. And, yeah, and that's coming from someone who is like, I looked at some of the view time on my videos. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this has been viewed like, you know, days years worth amount of time, but no one really knows who I am. Right? It's it's crazy.

Joel Lalgee:
30:19

At rec at rec fest which I'm going to a lot of the recruiters know me which is great. But as soon as I get out of recruiter and job search world, it's like it's not like I can get free sandwiches at, you know, McDonald's. Right. Don't give me any huggups.

Rhona Pierce:
30:35

So another thing I've heard a lot, as far as when I talk to people about creating content, a lot of companies and recruiters are afraid of getting canceled or like saying something wrong and that can make them canceled, especially on video. Have you ever created something that almost got you canceled?

Joel Lalgee:
30:52

Yeah. I mean, look, I'm very careful with the topics that I talk about. And, again, it's hard to get canceled over cover letters. And so but I think you got to know like your lane with things as well. And I think you've always got to be able to, if you make a point, you know, this is where I like, sometimes people will will post up just to go viral, right?

Joel Lalgee:
31:12

Or just because they wanna do something to kind of be seen. And the problem is if you can't back it up and like, kind of defend it, if you have to, you're gonna run into issues. And then you also like just in general, you've got to anticipate. And LinkedIn is probably the safest of all places in this way because, you know, everyone's work is tied into it. Some of these other platforms, you're gonna get trolls and things like that.

Joel Lalgee:
31:37

But again, it's like, you just got to know like, what your lane is and what you're going to talk about. And now look, if you feel very, very passionate about DNI, for example, you're not like an expert or you don't actually like, you just you just kind of making statements like you're gonna say things that are gonna resonate with some people and are gonna really not resonate practitioner, you got to be able to back it up. And you've got to understand why you're saying the only time ever that has actually that I've said something which like people came after me on was, funnily enough, I copy and pasted a post from TikTok and it was it was just kind of like a it was a what I would consider like kind of a hustle kind of post you know. So I go wake up at 6 AM. It was just some it was something like that.

Joel Lalgee:
32:33

And a lot of people jumped on the post about it. And at the end of day, I just I got to a point where I had so many comments. I was like, you know what? I'm actually just gonna delete this and walk away. And that was it.

Joel Lalgee:
32:44

It was like, sometimes we create these online worlds where it's like we read into we just read into things. But again, I most of what I talk about is like cover letters, resumes, interview advice. It's not like I'm like taking stands on, like, you know, politics or like social justice or things like that. And sometimes people challenge me in that and like, well, why don't you talk about what you think and things? And I'm like, well, that's not that's not my platform and it's actually not what I'm choosing to talk about.

Joel Lalgee:
33:16

And, I think you have to be comfortable with like not talking about everything. And if you feel pressure in that way, to me, like, that's not a reason to post something just because people are pressuring you into into things as well. Like, you've got see a full package, right? And it's you who you're putting yourself out there. And so yeah, it's long answer to I don't run into that that a lot.

Joel Lalgee:
33:39

And I would say 99% of recruiters. I don't know why that would necessarily even be like a fear. The only thing I could think about is like you post something about not ghosting. And then someone you ghosted, like, calls you out.

Rhona Pierce:
33:51

That would make my life clear. Sorry and

Joel Lalgee:
33:53

move on. Move on. Exactly.

Rhona Pierce:
33:56

Yeah. And you brought up a good point. Like, if you're gonna talk about a topic that you're not very familiar with, like, let's say you want to address something about DEI or something like that, then do a video with someone else who is an expert about this, and then ask them questions. And, yes, you've created content about that, and you've brought on someone who actually knows. And I think it's it's very important to remember the responsibility you have

Joel Lalgee:
34:21

with

Rhona Pierce:
34:21

the platform. Whether you have 1 follower or a 1000000 followers, whoever is looking or reading or watching your content is you have the responsibility of providing good information, information that you believe is true and you stand by. So I think as long as you do that, you're not gonna get canceled. And if someone that yeah. If you talk about ghosting and someone that you ghosted says like, well, you ghosted me in 2003.

Rhona Pierce:
34:49

It's like, well, sorry. I was a baby recruiter in 2003, and I made some mistakes. So then

Joel Lalgee:
34:54

just like

Rhona Pierce:
34:55

move on.

Joel Lalgee:
34:56

And this is something which, like, probably only recently in, like, last 6 months, like, I've really kind of dealt with. And I went through, like, a phase where I was pretty snarky with and with comments. You know, I mean this and that's okay and there's a lot of recruiters who kind of play that game where like they'll find a post they don't agree with and then they gotta leave that comment on it and that's fine and like, it's in again, it's like everyone has their own choices. But I ended up having somebody like basically send me like email like threatening emails and, you know, my wife was pregnant. It's kinda like weird, you know, it's just a weird threatening to sue me and all this sort of stuff.

Joel Lalgee:
35:32

I just started a business and tagged the lawyer on there. My wife was freaking out. It was this whole thing. I kinda just made a decision where I was like, why am I being snarky? Like it because most people when I meet with it, like, oh, you're a nice guy.

Joel Lalgee:
35:46

And I'm like, so why am I trying to play this, like, sarcastic person? And like, and I just I thought like, okay, well, what do I even want my brand to be? And how do I want people to think about and and now I'm like, I stayed away from that. And this has changed everything. So I don't get as many as meant stuff like that.

Joel Lalgee:
36:04

And if someone does comment something that seems to be stirring the pot, I usually just leave it alone and I've just kinda given myself permission of like, it's real life but it's not like human interaction. And I think the truth is whatever context people become themselves when it's a 1 on 1 actual face to face interaction. People become least themselves when it's like online and you've got like a group of people around you. And then it's the same like in real life. Right?

Joel Lalgee:
36:33

That's why you see like a 100 people storming into something in, like, you know, looting. You can kinda hide in the crowd. But to do that just by yourself, you're probably not gonna no. It's almost a guarantee all 100 of those people would not do that by themselves. Yeah.

Joel Lalgee:
36:51

So I think you've gotta have that mentality because what I'll see sometimes is, like, there's, like, a pack mentality on online where someone will post something and then it's like you know, the hounds will come from, like, lots of people. But what I realized, I've met actually some people who trolled me online, and then we get along offline and so I kind of keep that in mind where I'm like no matter what like when you meet people face to face to 1 on 1 it's always different and even if people are like in a group they are like hateful A lot of times when you're actually putting that 1 on 1 situation, then not actually that way because it's like a humanity thing. This that happens a lot of the time. Right? Not all of the time, but I would say more than most of the time, I would I would say that that happens.

Joel Lalgee:
37:38

And again, I've seen it so many times where like, I run into somebody at an event. And we maybe had a disagreement. So they might have even said something, maybe I even block them. And then it's, like, so much different in person. So I've I've kind of just, like, disconnected myself from that side of things.

Joel Lalgee:
37:54

I think if that's something you're concerned about, just always know, like, number 1, if someone comments on something, someone sends you a DM, you have zero obligation. You don't owe anybody anything. And the worst thing you can do is like over emotionalize it internally, and like, let it own you for an hour or 2 hours. And I think anyone who created content knows exactly what I'm talking about. But it's like, you got to get past that and just go, look, I'm not going to focus on the one I'm going to focus on the 99 people who are like, go, Joel.

Joel Lalgee:
38:24

Go, Rona. Like, you guys are amazing versus the one who's like, woah. You guys don't know what you're talking about. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
38:30

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's give yourself permission to ignore people. Like, it's literally super easy. It's way easier than in real life.

Joel Lalgee:
38:37

If someone comments something, you can

Rhona Pierce:
38:41

just ignore the comment and move on. And, like, I do this all the time. Like, sometimes someone comments something and you're like, and I'm like, you know what? I'm mad. I'm not I'm not even responding to this comment next.

Rhona Pierce:
38:52

Joel Lalgee:
38:52

Exactly. And that and it unfortunately, it took me, like, a long time to get to that point. And it's the same with a comparison thing. It's like like you said, like, we're doing this for a reason. Right?

Joel Lalgee:
39:01

And it's like, you can get compare you know, you get you start to compare and, like, you make judgments of like where people are at business wise. And like, again, I've had to just go, okay, I'm just gonna focus on like what I'm doing and try and support other people but I don't wanna just get into this comparison loop either. And then also it's just like we again, I don't know why people don't talk about this more but it's like this social, like I was telling my wife this the other day. I was like, sometimes, like, I fall into a trap of, like, maybe it's become validation for me for, like, my identity as well. Like how many likes I can get.

Joel Lalgee:
39:35

And it's like I have to almost work through that and be like, look, if I do a post that it gets 10 likes, like, that doesn't mean I'm like, useless, or like, I have zero value as a person. But it's like, when your business is tied to that, like your validation, stuff you got to work through. And again, I don't think most people who are listening to this would even want to get to that scale. But it's just, I think it's helpful to know like, some of these pitfalls that you can just pull into or, like, maybe you do post and you're like, oh, nobody liked it. It's like, it doesn't mean that nobody likes you.

Joel Lalgee:
40:05

It's just they didn't see it because you're not on their news feed that they're looking at, like, 10 minutes or, you know, it's like there are algorithms and stuff. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
40:15

Yeah. And also people don't always like things. It's like when I was actively recruiting and creating content, there were many times where I would post something that would, like, get, like, 2 or 3 likes, and it was like, my mom's best friend. She likes everything on my LinkedIn. And, yeah, I love her.

Rhona Pierce:
40:31

She supports me in everything. And, like, things like that. It was like 1 or 2 people, like my boss, my mom's best friend, and someone else. Yep. But then I get on call, I would get on my regular calls that day with candidates, and they would be like, I saw that video that you posted about this and this and this.

Rhona Pierce:
40:47

That was so great. I wanna ask more because it was about the company I was recruiting for because I've been doing internal recruiting for a long time. So I would post things that were about the company, and that would spark conversations. They didn't like the video.

Joel Lalgee:
41:00

No. And why would it if it's like they they would not gonna let like, again, if you're recruiting, like, people don't wanna say, like, they don't wanna like it because they know it's gonna show up on their boss's feed. Like, why are you liking what this recruiter is saying? Or, like, how do you know this person? And like LinkedIn is definitely one of those platforms where most people are like, feel awkward on the platform still.

Joel Lalgee:
41:20

And unless you're like used to it, and you're creating content, that's like awkward, or it's awkward, and people like don't know how to approach it. Even though we you know, like Facebook and Instagram, we're totally fine to just like hit like or repost to share. It's, there is a different culture on on LinkedIn and I tried a client who I'm coaching 1 on 1 and he said that he said, yeah, I just get my uncle, my brother, my view of my family. And I was like, yeah, but look at the view how many minutes of view time like you had like 3 hours of view time on this video. That's amazing.

Joel Lalgee:
41:50

That's, you know, that means people are

Rhona Pierce:
41:52

Yeah. My uncle didn't watch it for 3 hours.

Joel Lalgee:
41:54

No. You watched it for 3. He's like, wait. I watched it for 3 now. It's, you know, and we just get caught on hooked in the wrong things I think with this stuff.

Joel Lalgee:
42:04

And I think when you think about LinkedIn as a platform which, you know, most recruiters are on, you usually connect with people, you know, people that you've worked with. And I just think of like, when I think of content nowadays, I literally think of like, my mindset is, like, okay, if I'm, like, FaceTiming one person, how what would I say to them? Kind of knowing that there might be 10 people or 20 people. And I think we've sensationalized these numbers as well. And like, obviously, like, you might hear on my oh, millions and oh, millions is the goal.

Joel Lalgee:
42:36

And I'm like, no, from a recruiting standpoint, if you've got 10 roles to fill, then 10 is the goal. If you're running your own business, and you your deal size is 25 ks or 50 ks, you know, for 2 deals, then guess what 2 is the goal. If you're a solopreneur business person, same thing. Like you run a coaching clinic, and it's 10 ks. And you think, Oh, I could use 5 clients and fives ago, not a million, 5 of the right people.

Joel Lalgee:
43:05

I think, again, it trips people up and they're like, oh, well, if I'm not getting this, and I'm like, you don't need the I don't know where this mass appeal even came from to be honest with you.

Rhona Pierce:
43:15

Oh, I I've Yeah. I had an entire episode of talking about that with James Ellis

Joel Lalgee:
43:20

Oh, yeah.

Rhona Pierce:
43:20

That I'll link for people to watch. But it's like people companies are obsessed with this, like, more candidates. We want to appeal to everyone. We want everyone to love us. Like, that's not even our goal.

Joel Lalgee:
43:30

Right? Top of funnel, like, how many applicants? I because of hiring managers, that's what that's what the who got anymore getting new candidates for me Instead of asking like, do you have any of like the right candidates? Like and I did, I swear Hiring Managers would rather have 10 bad candidates than one great candidate. That's like Yeah.

Joel Lalgee:
43:49

What are those metrics?

Rhona Pierce:
43:51

Yeah. So having having those conversations, another thing that a lot of recruiters run into is their leadership sees creating content as, like, a waste of time because, I guess, because it's such of a long game, how do you balance when you were recruiting and creating content? How did you balance doing both things and find time for it?

Joel Lalgee:
44:12

I was really lucky the on the first company when I started creating content. I wouldn't say lucky but the CEO of the company, number 1, I knew him. I've known him for a long time. So that that made it a lot easier. But also his mentality was very much like or the the mentality of the culture of the company was like entrepreneur being an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial.

Joel Lalgee:
44:35

And so I was like, well, content, creating content. This is my entrepreneur thing. This is this is me thinking outside of the box, and that's something they celebrated. So I think if you're in the right culture, that shouldn't be a problem. I actually see and I think for if you I think if you're working at a really large company and I was talking to the chief people officer at a really large company, we're having this exact conversation.

Joel Lalgee:
44:56

He was like, Well, I don't know why. Why why why are we just not like why are we just hitting record and having conversation? Well, because nowadays, you say the wrong thing and people lose 1,000,000 of dollars. And so bigger companies, man, you say the wrong thing. Stock price gets hit.

Joel Lalgee:
45:13

It's it's literally costing people money. And so I think you got to know your company, you got to know what their what their thoughts are. And when I started creating content, I was working for this company where it was very entrepreneurial. And then the next company I went with or I went to work with, it was a similar thing. Like, they really believed in content.

Joel Lalgee:
45:31

So I got into organizations where this was was acceptable. I think to the ROI point, you know, if company leaders are questioning the ROI, I guess I would look at like, because I talked to some of these recruiting teams, maybe they've got 60 people on a recruitment team. Number one thing I would tell people to do it, like, don't jump into creating the content right away. Look at the content that's already been created by your marketing team or on your LinkedIn page. And if you have, you know, if I go to your marketing page, and those LinkedIn posts have 2 likes, and the 60 people on the recruiting team, It's like, there's an opportunity to hit like, and hit repost.

Joel Lalgee:
46:08

And what you do is and there's no doubt in my mind that if every recruitment team is listening, just went, you know, we're gonna get really behind the marketing team, then no doubt in my mind, number 1, when hiring goes down, they're going to question, they're still going to know that you bring a value, which is just like its content distribution. And so, you know, when I look go to a company, I see 20 recruiters, 40 recruiters, marketing page and it's like 1 like, I'm like, you're already mess messing up. Right?

Rhona Pierce:
46:33

And so, like, just start to engage

Joel Lalgee:
46:34

first and get into that. And just show, don't tell. Like, I think in my experience, telling people what an ROI is is hard. Showing them the ROI is a lot easier. So if I go to a client and go, Hey, I just got you 50,000 impressions.

Joel Lalgee:
46:52

They're like, Oh my gosh. But if I told them I was gonna get the 50,000 impressions, so like, okay. And so if you start with that engagement, getting behind what the marketing team's doing, you're making an impact. They they are going to see an impact whether it's leads, impressions, whatever the KPIs they have set out. And then the conversation starts and you go, look, we've been engaging with the team and like, look at how our impressions have gone over our follower and are we generating new leads?

Joel Lalgee:
47:17

Do we need to do the same thing from a recruitment perspective? The challenge with that is I think if someone's going to lead this, it's going to be hard for an individual contributor recruiter to do it. And with any of these changes, you need someone who is, you know, at the executive level or founder or somebody who's in a position to have a seat at that table with the conversation. And so, like, this is to the chief people officers, the chief human resources officer, the people who are leading. You have to instigate this and you have to believe in it.

Joel Lalgee:
47:48

If you're an IC and you're you're not in that environment, it's gonna be hard. Right? Because you know, you don't even get that conversation with the CFO or whoever making making those decisions.

Rhona Pierce:
47:58

Yeah. I think as a IC, the most that you can do is what I did in a environment where it wasn't like so well received. It was part of my sourcing. You want me to source? This is how I source.

Rhona Pierce:
48:11

So let's say I had the ability to spend 3 hours a day sourcing. An hour of that was creating content. And that helps my other sourcing. So there there are always ways to, like, weave it in and, yeah, be mindful and be don't go and say things about your company if that's not accepted and things like that. But I think there's always a way to find time.

Rhona Pierce:
48:33

You just have to be creative because there is a goal behind what you're doing. And if it's if it's sourcing, then this is part of your sourcing strategy type of Yeah.

Joel Lalgee:
48:42

And and look, you start creating content. You build up awareness. And then, like, data is also a great way to to show it. So let let's say, hey, before I started creating content, my email acceptance rate was 15%. Now that I started creating content, it's it's 25%.

Joel Lalgee:
48:57

Right? Now you can attribute that to there's just more awareness. And there's there's more awareness. And I would I would also say like, one of the things that I've thought a lot about with just creating content as recruiters that's underrated is, yes, the candidates are we obviously want more candidates but there's also the side which I think recruiters struggle with more than even sourcing candidates and reaching out to them. And that is getting hiring managers bought into them trusting you, your candidates, because there's nothing worse with them.

Joel Lalgee:
49:25

If a hiring manager doesn't trust you, you can send them candidates then not gonna work with them. And so the number one thing that a lot of recruiters say is I wish I had more time with my hiring managers. So I say, well, look, if you put out helpful information, see 3 videos a week, helpful information. Guess who's gonna see that? Because you connected to him on LinkedIn, you hire a manager.

Joel Lalgee:
49:43

And then, there's suddenly there's this weird thing that happens. There's a thing called social proof. And if they see you doing something, it's like you're an expert. If you're making videos on what's going on in the industry, they're gonna view you as an expert. And then you send them candidates, and you have that trust fill in.

Joel Lalgee:
49:58

And so, again, what are the questions that hiring managers asked? What's the market like? What is our competition doing? What are how is this going to impact hiring? How is, you know, what are the salary bands like?

Joel Lalgee:
50:09

You can create content around that and then they start to see you as that trusted person. And again, I think this is it's harder if you're just starting out in recruitment. I hear that and that can be a challenge. But for those recruiters who are, you know, 3, 5, 10 years in, you know, you are actually a subject matter expert, but you can actually use content to get that FaceTime that you want. And it's the same with with c suite.

Joel Lalgee:
50:32

Right? Because you're gonna be connected to with them. So there's this other side of it where it's like, yes, candidates. Yes, employer brand. But what about just building trust with the business and having them see you as this person's credible?

Joel Lalgee:
50:43

Because there is a thing, you know, it's that social proof, right? That helps them. But the other side where, like, hey, you can source 10 amazing candidates to the best fit ever. But that hiring manager doesn't have that trust. Good luck.

Rhona Pierce:
50:57

Yeah. And and that works for for agency recruiters and for internal. It has worked for me for internal. I remember once I posted some advice about, like, how to interview, like, as an interviewer

Joel Lalgee:
51:09

Yep.

Rhona Pierce:
51:10

My hiring managers started asking me questions. Obviously, no one liked that video. They didn't like it because everyone wants to every hiring manager wants to be the expert at hiring. They know how to interview. But on the side, those conversations were great and it builds that trust.

Rhona Pierce:
51:25

And that's where I that's when one of my content pillars back then started to be like yeah. I was like, The these are the questions that they're they have that they're asking, and it brought value. It brings the trust and then any candidates I would present. And I'm working internally. We're coworkers.

Rhona Pierce:
51:43

It's just it levels up your your relationship.

Joel Lalgee:
51:47

This is the the juxtaposition with recruitment is you're dealing with people on both sides that know more about the position than you. And you're given in an ideal world, you're the one that's almost making a decision of like, who in the pool of candidates we have going through, based on what the hiring manager has said, based on the job description, based on the information you have, and then understanding the resume and the conversation, you're the one who's making a decision of who I'm going to present to the hiring manager, and then the hiring managers then present making decision of who they actually want to see and have the conversation with. But in that, it's like when it comes to the knowledge level and the credibility, you're actually the lowest person on there with the candidate, especially with technical, they're not always going to have respect for you as a recruiter. So any way that you can build that up, changes everything. And this is where I like, again, that valuable and being a thought leader.

Joel Lalgee:
52:43

Now, sometimes it's you creating content, but it could also I was thinking about that example with like interviews, right? There's a company out there that their founders, they post a lot of information around that or around interviews, like who's speaking, how are they speaking? Like that type of content would be great if you reposted it or you reposted it with your thought on there. Like, you know, so you don't always have to be the one that's necessarily, like, creating it or coming up with that, but maybe you're sharing that and going, no. This is great advice.

Joel Lalgee:
53:13

But again, it's like your names associated with that. As long as you put your thoughts on there, they see that and then you're elevated. And then you don't get that complaint from that, you know, that engineer that's just like, oh, yeah. You're just another recruiter that doesn't know anything that has this agenda. So I actually I think that example that you just described was, like, is super smart.

Joel Lalgee:
53:33

And it's like, is you'd love to have that 1 on 1 conversation with them and like, hey, this is how we do a tour card. This is how we make decisions. When are you gonna get that? Right? But you can make that content and then suddenly the next thing you find out, like, hey, can you can train our team on how to do this?

Rhona Pierce:
53:47

Exactly. Yeah. And and and literally that happened from that content. That's how I started my workshop on interviewing for hiring teams. It started from me

Joel Lalgee:
53:56

just

Rhona Pierce:
53:57

posting a video about it, and then it that snowballed into all the things that I do today. So it's just I

Joel Lalgee:
54:06

think you said with with, like, the top voice badge that you got as well. It was like you're not going in there to be like, oh, I wanna be a top voice or like, oh, I wanna be I wanna have millions and millions of followers. I remember you said to me, start putting out valuable content that I cared about that I thought was helpful, gonna be helpful to people in my network, and then somebody who makes the decision to, hey, this person's a top voice, they've found that content helpful and engaging and valuable. And I think what what I love about that is it's kind of that common threat threat. Right?

Joel Lalgee:
54:37

It's like you talk about things you like and that you're an expert in. And then the rest, it just kind of takes care of itself. But I would say like for a lot of recruiters out there if you're listening you you feel like oh this is great this is amazing but I just don't know if I have that expertise or that subject matter expertise. It's like, I just want to tell you right now, you do more than you think. But there is that.

Joel Lalgee:
54:59

I think for both of us, we would both say like, yes, sure. There's probably times of like impostor syndrome and these things, but you do also have to like, you got to take that step and go, you know, I believe that I actually do know what I'm talking about. And I've actually I believe that I have expertise in these things. And you got to have that confidence level to be able to step out. And that's something that you can only really decide like you.

Joel Lalgee:
55:20

So again, with creativity, you've got to think you're creative to be creative. I don't talk to I know I've fantastically creative people. But I tell you what they all think they all know that they're creative, but they believe that they're creative as well. And it's almost like, you have to have that self belief in there as well. I think to get started, so I just anyone who's listening to some like, believe in it Just like you are a subject matter expert so start Yeah.

Joel Lalgee:
55:45

Start sharing that, you know?

Rhona Pierce:
55:46

And candidates always say that you don't know what you're recruiting for Hiring managers think you don't know. Guess what? You are the subject matter expert in hiring. Exactly. That's why you're a recruiter.

Rhona Pierce:
55:57

That's what you talk about. You don't want to be a software engineer. So you don't try to be an expert in software engineering. Right? You're an expert in recruiting.

Rhona Pierce:
56:07

You're an expert in hiring. Stand in that power and create content and talk about that. And like, you are an expert. So I love that you call that out. So this has been an awesome conversation.

Joel Lalgee:
56:19

Yeah. I love it.

Rhona Pierce:
56:20

I'm so excited to share it. Where can listeners find you if they want to connect with you?

Joel Lalgee:
56:25

Yeah. I just go to, www.therealestrecruiter.com. It's my website. I've got list all my socials on there. I've also got a podcast called Recruiting is No Joke, and all of the podcast episodes are on the on the podcast page on the website.

Joel Lalgee:
56:43

But yeah, if you go if you go there, then you can kind of pick and choose where you want to find me in terms of like LinkedIn, which is obviously where I'm where I'm at as well. I am maxed out at maximum connections, which is 30,000, believe it or not, happens once you just get over a certain amount of followers. But what I always say is, like, if you send me a connection request, you know, say that you heard me on the podcast, I do DM everybody back. So, and it's not AI. It's a copy and pasted message.

Joel Lalgee:
57:10

It's not AI. It's me. I have to copy and paste each individual one. But then that means that we can DM as well. And so it's kind of a hack around the the whole limitation.

Joel Lalgee:
57:20

Only difference is instead of saying like 1, or it's gonna say second degree connection, but we can still DM. So it's basically the same thing. So, yeah, just go to the ww.therealistrecruiter. That's what this sign says if it's cut off. And yeah.

Joel Lalgee:
57:33

If you just go there, you'll be able to find all my information.

Rhona Pierce:
57:36

Amazing. And there you have it, folks. Joel just dropped some serious gems about creating recruiting content that actually works. Remember, it's not about reinventing the wheel every time you post. It's about consistency, understanding what your audience cares about, and yes, repeating yourself, but in fresh, engaging ways.

Rhona Pierce:
57:59

Whether you're just starting out or you're looking to level up your content game, Joel's advice is gold. Find your niche, embrace your expertise, and don't be afraid to hit that record button. The only thing I would add is get really good at storytelling. That's why I've created a free 7 day email course, storytelling for recruiters. This course teaches you how to proactively answer the questions that job seekers really wanna know about your company.

Rhona Pierce:
58:29

It's based on an anonymous survey I ran asking job seekers what they'd ask in an interview if they knew their chances of being hired wouldn't be impacted. To sign up, visit ronapierce.com/storytelling. The link is in the show notes. And if you wanna learn even more about attracting candidates with your content, make sure to check out episode 14, where I chat with Taylor Dessen about building online talent communities. Trust me.

Rhona Pierce:
58:58

It's the perfect companion to today's episode. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.